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60%+ f1 heath issues

M

macmanmatty

Guest
#1
I am planning on breeding one of my f1's to a serval to make 75% f1 savannahs I was youtube seraching 75% f1's and noticed one guy had a lot of videos of them but in each one said they died before one year mostly of leukemia one got cancer from shots I believe . He said that all they died before one year old. He got a total 5 cats from 2 different breeders I know name of one them. But not sure if can mention it. I know a couple of others whos high percent f1 died ( one of leukemia and may have from one of the two breeders). I am going to be possibly mating one my f1's to serval in future But would like feedback from those who breed or own 60%+ savannahs. He said most of them died of leukemia So Should I give them the feline lekumia shot or not? His were never given the shot. Basically what i am wanting to know is are there any happy healthy 60%+ f1 savannahs out there and that I am breeding more the just unhealthy sick f1's that won't live. Any one who owns one of these cats or did is welcome to respond I would especially breeders. Let me know that there are happy healthy High Percent f1's out there.
 

John Popp

Site Supporter
#2
The percentage doesn't make the quality of cat, and the many breeders with large catteries and years of experience opt for targets in the 62.5% range or less. 75% F1s are at best very fragile creatures at birth and you would be setting yourself up for a lot of heartache. You don't need to do anything more than go to the sites of some of the larger catteries who have percentages of their F1 queens listed, and you'll have the answer to what they believe provide their customers healthy and happy cats.
 

Patti

Admin
Staff member
#3
If you are planning on breeding your F1 to a serval I hope they have been raised together from a very young age, or that the serval is known to easily accept strange females (very rare). As for the health issues - disease is not specific to a percentage of serval in a Savannah - if a breeder has had problems with leukemia, it is in the cattery not just with the HP kittens. Leukemia has to be contracted from another cat, it doesn't just appear spontaneously. If the person that has the serval has had problems with leukemia I would say stay far away, I would never trust a vaccine to prevent it if it is known to be present at a cattery.

As for the HP kittens - well it's hard enough to get any female pregnant with a serval, have her carry to term without aborting them, then delivering them full term (most F1s are born premie and very often need 24/7 support with tube feeding every 2-3 hours, pottying, and shelter in an ICU unit). Producing 75% F1s increases all these risks exponentially, which of course is why there are so few 75% F1s around.
 

Brigitte Cowell

Moderator
Staff member
#4
My 62.5% F1 queen was 2 years old in June, she is FeLV -ve. As others have said, FeLV is not a disease specific to high % Savannahs.

It might be localized in a cattery, I do remember one case from years ago where the kittens (62.5% F1s) were mostly found to have FeLV but I cannot remember if they found that the F2 mom or the Serval was the one to be infected (or both).
 
M

macmanmatty

Guest
#5
Hello all of my cats are FeLV negative as is the serval she will be mating to. She has a serval who will mate anything domestics and servals. The f1 I am using is very aggressive and won't mate any of the males of mine i have tried a bengal a f4 savannah and a f5 savannah. At the f1's former breeder there was only one male would mate her they other 2 would not. She is very large 19+ lbs and tall and long legged. Most males will mate her so i was going to try with serval as she has been going in and out of heat quite alot recently. I was thinking a f1 would have better chance of carrying f1's to term is this not so? My girl usually has kittens on day 74 is that not long enough to hold the kittens in? I have a incubator being built out of plywood carpet, and r-9 insulation. using a heating pad with a temp control and thermomter. This will placed in a insulated heated room. that stays about 80-85 degrees. The incubator will be 95-100 degrees. So I can keep the kittens alive if they are a little preemie. I was mainly asking about heath issues because I have not seen many high percent f1's and wondered if this could be reason people are not producing them or if they are the reason they are not living. I know that feline leukemia is a disease but I was wondering if this percentage could have a weakend immune system giving it a greater chance to contact feline leukemia or any other disease.
 
#6
I think it is a bad assumption that a Serval will breed anything- and if you are betting on him breeding your F1, that's when he's going to turn his nose up at her.

FRANKLY, and I'm just being frank, if she has been attempted by multiple males (5 males- two of yours, three of the breeder's?)- I think I'd be looking at spaying her versus her going in and out of heat so much.

JMHO. I am the one to err on the side of caution though in regard to my cat's health. As much as I love my precious F2s, I wouldn't risk my big butt F1 girls just to have them :)
 
M

macmanmatty

Guest
#7
she has been mated before and produced f2's at the original breeders. But only one of her males would do that.
 

Brigitte Cowell

Moderator
Staff member
#8
I'd be more worried about an altercation between her and the Serval. If she is hard to breed and is a typical F1 she might be a tad dominant with a Serval and there might be trouble....if she's not been raised with a Serval what is she going to think when faced with one? Personally, I wouldn't risk one of my cats in such a situation.

I think that even IF 75% kittens had weakened immune systems, they can't contract FeLV unless exposed to it... so if all your cats are FeLV negative it can't happen. MOST catteries are FeLV negative, all my cats certainly are tested... I think the issue is when catteries have had indoor/outdoor cats before getting Savannahs and then don't test those DSHs before introducing them into their household. Or still allowing their DSHs to go outdoors, which I have also heard about.

I also think that you need to consider the added responsibility of homing 75% kittens versus 50%. They are significantly MORE Serval and hence you probably need to scrutinize the potential homes even more than for a normal F1 kitten. You would likely need to make sure the kittens are microchipped and that there is DNA testing of the mom...as I would worry that in some places the kittens might end up that they could be easily mistaken for Servals (and we might be able to detect the difference, not all Animal Control officers might be so discerning and they most definitely are cynical about claims that an exotic is really a domestic hybrid). I've had AC called on a 46% cat being mistaken for a Serval.
 
#9
On one had I do tend to agree with your thought process that an F1 would be more likely to carry longer term, but all the other cautions here should be given serious consideration. If she is a very aggressive girl when breeding, the Serval may not tolerate her which means you are really taking a huge risk with her. There is a reason F1s are expensive - the difficulties are well documented but best left to an open and honest conversation with F1 breeders.

Another reason I have noticed no big push for the 75% F1s is that females are notoriously difficult to breed. A goodly number of F1 females end up in breeding programs. I am aware of only 2 people who have had successful litters from their really HP girls. Since most breeders don't want to risk the investment in such HP cats, you are looking a placing them in a pet market that is most definitely struggling in a volatile economy. IF you have a successful litter, you will need to be extremely diligent in screening where those kittens go. I have had people shocked at the activity level of F4 and F5 kittens... F1s and F2s are not for everyone or every household, and a 75% F1 is exponentially more intense.