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Does The Breeder Usually Know..............

L

Louie'sDad

Guest
.................how the kittens/cubs of a litter are going to turn out? One breeder that I know of offers "elite" or "exceptional" kittens, at 10 weeks or so, for a premium price. What do they see and how can the purchaser be sure that they are getting what they paid for?
 

admin

Paige
Staff member
We don't have any cubs...only kittens...servals have cubs, but we still call them kittens...

I agree with Deborah...for me, I have just been asked to sell one of my F5 SBT boys as a show cat...well, they are only three weeks old and I will not do it, since I need to watch them develop and then evaluate. Usually at about 4 months, you have a good idea, but 10 weeks? Nah! But this is my opinion!
 

Brigitte Cowell

Moderator
Staff member
What I think this breeder is doing, by holding kittens until 10 weeks of age, they are looking for early indicators that the cat will be large. I do see in the kittens I've had here that have turned out BIG, that at ~8 weeks of age you can really see that they will be taller than littermates... they just seem to really start sprouting at that age. If that is what that breeder considers "elite" or "exceptional" then that is what is happening.

But when it comes to other traits we value in our breed such as ear size, shape and set... those traits really can change a lot and it is nigh impossible to really tell at that age.
 

SV Dad

Savannah Super Cat
I can tell you "that" breeder can predict certain types of personality. And I have the proof right here in this house. She was spot on.
I asked about that. In this case, the mother had a considerable track record of producing gentle personable kittens. As Rascal was my second, I was definitely looking for personality. His brother is cut from the same cloth and quite outgoing. Mayhem is an ambassador for the breed when he visits the veterinarian. Most of the time they are the vet's first experience with the breed. Many of them were hesitant initially, all of the vets were won over.
 

Wyldthingz

Savannah Super Cat
I have been breeding for 9 years and STILL don't have any cubs :)!!!

I don't know if exceptional means show quality of something that everyone wants- like a black nose. Maybe that is what they are thinking?

All kittens are exceptional and you don't need a show quality cat if you want a nice pet- go for personality and health.

I prefer to get kittens from smaller breeders where the kittens get more one on one and probably be less exposed to cat viruses and disease but that is my opinion only.

What I don't recommend, be told that they have to put a deposit down for a kitten that is either not born or not available yet. If you can't see it, don't buy it. Also to wait until at least 5,6,7 weeks so you can tell what typo of personality the kitten has.

As a breeder, I really want to wait until 12 weeks to see what I want to see.
 

admin

Paige
Staff member
I have been breeding for 9 years and STILL don't have any cubs :)!!!

I don't know if exceptional means show quality of something that everyone wants- like a black nose. Maybe that is what they are thinking?

All kittens are exceptional and you don't need a show quality cat if you want a nice pet- go for personality and health.

I prefer to get kittens from smaller breeders where the kittens get more one on one and probably be less exposed to cat viruses and disease but that is my opinion only.

What I don't recommend, be told that they have to put a deposit down for a kitten that is either not born or not available yet. If you can't see it, don't buy it. Also to wait until at least 5,6,7 weeks so you can tell what typo of personality the kitten has.

As a breeder, I really want to wait until 12 weeks to see what I want to see.

I totally agree with Kelly on most of what she said ;)
 

John Popp

Site Supporter
Being familiar with "that breeder" what they term as an exceptional kitten is strictly attributes of appearance. Bold markings, elegant long legs and large ears. It has nothing to do with size or personality. Certainly they can pick up some indicators of prospective size, but size is not a prerequisite for them to classify a kitten as exceptional.

If you want a larger kitten, they can certainly assist you in choosing a kitten that has a higher probability of being on the larger side. Of course there aren't any guarantees as a kitten is going to make up their own mind as to how much they are going to eat, and mother nature takes care of the rest.

On personality, it is something they strive for in their breeding program. They make no pretense of knowing what a kittens personality will be like in the early weeks of life on what a kittens personality will be. At 6-8 weeks they start getting some glimpses, and at 8-10 weeks they start having a better idea.

Having been a personality shopper with them, it proved to be difficult as so many others were buying on the looks of kittens. I had a deposit in, was waiting on that right personality fit, but certainly couldn't have them place the rest of their kittens on hold waiting for me to make a decision. It was very frustrating, as I have told others, and more than once I had the rug pulled out from under me on prospective candidates as I was awaiting the development of personality.

In the end, we made an early decision when the first signs of personality were going to show. We also went into the decision knowing that we could opt out if there was a kitten that better fit our personality profile. It wasn't easy, it took a long time (nearly 7 months) but we ended up with a better than expected complete package. A super sweet male melanistic who purrs louder than a jackhammer, has the confidence to contend with the juggernaut we have in Chongo and although not a prerequisite seems like he will be a large boy, perhaps cracking 7 lbs before he's 3 months old.

Anyway, the primary gist is if you want a large kitten, just tell them and they can provide you with a kitten that has a high probability of being sizable. No guarantees of course, but they do have some historical data to fall back on and certainly as much experience as anyone in breeding Savannahs.

Oh and one last thing, not sure if you have ever visited their facility, but it's pretty apparent they are not breeding for size. There are plenty of 8-12lb females that are very striking in appearance but by no means large. One truly beautiful female in their breeding program probably wasn't even 8 lbs although she was incredibly friendly with very pronounced markings. For me, I don't need a cat that's the size of a buffalo that has the personality of a rock.
 
L

Louie'sDad

Guest
Being familiar with "that breeder" what they term as an exceptional kitten is strictly attributes of appearance. Bold markings, elegant long legs and large ears. It has nothing to do with size or personality. Certainly they can pick up some indicators of prospective size, but size is not a prerequisite for them to classify a kitten as exceptional.

If you want a larger kitten, they can certainly assist you in choosing a kitten that has a higher probability of being on the larger side. Of course there aren't any guarantees as a kitten is going to make up their own mind as to how much they are going to eat, and mother nature takes care of the rest.

On personality, it is something they strive for in their breeding program. They make no pretense of knowing what a kittens personality will be like in the early weeks of life on what a kittens personality will be. At 6-8 weeks they start getting some glimpses, and at 8-10 weeks they start having a better idea.

Having been a personality shopper with them, it proved to be difficult as so many others were buying on the looks of kittens. I had a deposit in, was waiting on that right personality fit, but certainly couldn't have them place the rest of their kittens on hold waiting for me to make a decision. It was very frustrating, as I have told others, and more than once I had the rug pulled out from under me on prospective candidates as I was awaiting the development of personality.

In the end, we made an early decision when the first signs of personality were going to show. We also went into the decision knowing that we could opt out if there was a kitten that better fit our personality profile. It wasn't easy, it took a long time (nearly 7 months) but we ended up with a better than expected complete package. A super sweet male melanistic who purrs louder than a jackhammer, has the confidence to contend with the juggernaut we have in Chongo and although not a prerequisite seems like he will be a large boy, perhaps cracking 7 lbs before he's 3 months old.

Anyway, the primary gist is if you want a large kitten, just tell them and they can provide you with a kitten that has a high probability of being sizable. No guarantees of course, but they do have some historical data to fall back on and certainly as much experience as anyone in breeding Savannahs.

Oh and one last thing, not sure if you have ever visited their facility, but it's pretty apparent they are not breeding for size. There are plenty of 8-12lb females that are very striking in appearance but by no means large. One truly beautiful female in their breeding program probably wasn't even 8 lbs although she was incredibly friendly with very pronounced markings. For me, I don't need a cat that's the size of a buffalo that has the personality of a rock.

First, let me say that I used the term "c*b", knowing that its improper, but I like the sound of it. Implies a wild cat, like a leopard, tiger, etc. And after posting this, I now see that the term is forbidden on this forum!

Thanks all, and to John, my search only lasted about a month, so I consider myself very lucky to have found this particular breeder so quickly and ended up with such a sweet boy with such striking markings, large ears, bold oceli and handsome face.

My wish was for a large boy, and I made that known to the breeder from the start. There was a choice between 2 males from the same litter; both were priced the same. I was steered toward my choice because I was told that Louie showed signs that he would be "large", most likely relative to his litter mates. I didn't realize, at the time that his litter as not going to turn out for size, as I was so taken with the facial form of the parents. The facial features had the "look" that I wanted, and the markings were, for me, superb. The personality was never discussed, but Louie is very social..................he loves everybody that he comes into contact with (except for one of my neighbors, oddly) which is very much at odds with what I know about F1s. He never leaves my side, purrs like the 327 engine in my '65 Corvette when he's feeling playful and mischievous, runs to greet me when I enter his living space (most of my house). And now that the weather is cooling off, he curls up on my lap to watch TV with me, and even quiets down and beds down with me from time to time. His personality fits what I was told it would be............and then some! He is friendlier than typical F1, but very deeply ingrained hunt instinct.

There was absolutely no misrepresentation made by the breeder, and they have gone out of their way to make up for anything that I was not pleased with. I was steered towards Louie because he supposedly has bolder, larger spots than the second male that I was looking at, as well as because he has very interesting cheek markings, "like Indian war paint". There was one other aspect that I was not told about. I noticed a "defect" after I got him home, and was subsequently generously compensated for it. Excellent marketing strategy, I have to admit.

Here are his sire, Thor and F3 queen, Nyah:

Serval King-Thor.gif
F3 Queen-Nyah.jpg

Here's Louie at 3.5 weeks:

3.5 Weeks-1.jpg

Here's the other F1 male that I was choosing between but passed on:

Brother N2-2.jpg
 
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