Savannah F3, F4 or later

[TaiShu]

Hey everyone.

Been in love with the breed since I first heard about them a couple of years back.
I was checking out a F4 1-1,5y back from a private person who wanted to get rid of it to start breeding Bengals.
The F4 was cute but sneezing all the time etc. Medical treatment didn't exist from the beginning. Papers not available. Long story short: We didn't take it but took her Bengal kitten instead.

As everyone of you might understand, if you fall in love with Savannah you'll not stop thinking about it until you got one.

Right now I'm searching for a Savannah to be a good friend for our Bengal. I am struggling with the prices they are calling but somehow arranged to ignore it because I will enjoy them (hopefully) for a very long time.

F1, F2 are not an option for me, because I'm not able to effort one, plus I don't have a separate outside area for them, which these generations definitely require. In Germany even by law (not sure how it's being handled in the US).
F3 and F4 are very good options for me. Generations F5+ are handled as domestic cats and therefore I didn't even consider getting one.

To finally come up with my question I just want to share with you what I'm looking for in a Savannah (besides their loyalty, intelligence etc what every generation shares):

- Their character (but even F5+ keep this)
- Big size: It's so impressive to see this size for a cat you are allowed to own at home
- Wild look: F1 and Servals are the most amazing creatures of all. I'm a HUGE fan of wild cats (especially the very elegant ones like Tigers, Leopards, Cheetahs). F5+ loose this wild look completely. I've seen a very few exceptions but those were so expensive that I could even buy a F2 for it.

That's how I ended up with F3 or F4 as being the right generations for me.

Question is, and that's something I didn't find anywhere on the internet: - Is there anything different in general that can make you feel (or see) that you are dealing with a F3 instead of a F4 due to the higher percentage of Serval?
- Can you say that usually a F3 is definitely bigger than a F4? Or is this completely dependent on the animal in these two generations?
- Does a F3 always look wilder than a F4?
- Is there a difference in behavior between the two (excluding the factor of the individual animal)

I can see huge differences between Serval, F1 and F2. Not so much between F3 + F4 but then again in F5 and what's following.

Just wondering if paying twice as much for a F3 really makes a difference in the cat I'll have at home.

Thanks in advance.

(Our Bengal is already looking out for his new fellow.)

 

[SV Dad]

Welcome Taishu!
You found a great resource for Savannah questions. There are many top quality breeders who participate on this forum who can give better advice than I can.
I have 3 savannahs. Two F3 brothers and a F5 female so I am only experienced with theses two generations.
Size. I know you mentioned that a lot in your post. When you read the forums, you will discover that most of us really no longer care about size. Size is hard to predict, even at F1 and F2 generations. Overall, the savannah breed is taller, longer, and thinner, with longer necks than a typical cat. The head usually appears smaller than you would expect from the proportion of the cat body. I think my F3 boys look like normal sized cats. But they are actually taller and longer than your generic cat. You get used to them after you have had them awhile. The one thing that is generally big about savannahs is their personality. Huge.
Depending upon the quality of the breeders kittens, you may not be able to tell the difference between F3, F4, and later. The breeding program is still progressing but I have seen stunning F5 kittens that are rather large and have the tall ears, long bodies, and all of the desired traits. The "wild" look is part of the breed description, and is showing up nicely in the later generations, depending upon the quality of the breeder's line.
Whereas this is an active breed, generally F3 and beyond are very typically like a common cat, but very inquisitive and energetic. Like a Bengal they like to get very involved with the humans.
Take some time and read the forums. You will learn a lot. You will start to see we are a community devoted to our cats. Funny thing is.... size doesn't matter. It's the personality that every person who visits our homes, remembers the most about our cats, and frequently those guests become a home for their own savannah.

 

[TaiShu]

Hey rascal_dad,

Thanks for your view on this. As I'm so far just read about Savannahs so far and didn't have the chance to see one in action I'm wondering what you'd say about these two F4 Savannahs. Are they beautiful for a Savannah?

1. http://images4.dhd.de/92096619.jpg

2. http://images0.dhd.de/93729180.jpg

The F3s I'm going to check out are expected to be born today.

Ah and just remember that now that my account has been approved here I can check out the F3 and F4 pictures. They didn't show properly before. That's what I'm going to do now.

 

[TaiShu]

Beauty or course is individual to people. But based on how the standard describes a Savannah.

Just wondering if it's worth to shoot for twice as much money for a F3 vs what you see in my last post for the F4s.
What's usually the range for a F3 and F4 in the US if there is one at all?

 

[SV Dad]

Those are beautiful Savannahs. More pictures would help to see all of the breed traits.
Prices are all over the place in the US. F3 is usually higher than F4...higher than F5, etc. But a very good F5 can go for $2000. We can get good F3's for $5000. The more exotic looking and inky spots tend to be more expensive. (Just an amateur's opinion. The breeders here can give more accurate advice.)
I personally went to my breeder and their facility to see the kittens before purchase. I don't know if that's possible where you are at, but I feel that is the best way to gauge the quality of the kitten and the service from the breeder.

The reason I have two F3's, Rascal is such an amazing cat, we asked the breeder for a full brother, and were lucky enough to get his brother Mayhem. Mayhem is also very amazing, but very different in his personality. (He's the cat causing the most anarchy in the house! Rascal is much more reserved.) They are worth every penny.

 

[TaiShu]

I agree with you. The best thing is to see the breeder and how they are doing their job.
What I definitely always do is to have a call with them to figure out what kind of people they are. That helps to already identify if the person is someone I'd be comfortable dealing with and in this case also, if I'd buy a kitten from him/her. One of the more famous breeders I know here for example, is someone I wouldn't buy a kitten from. She has beautiful cats, however I didn't like how she was talking to me. My assumption of her is, that for her it's primary about the money, than about the breed and the people interested in this breed. I might be wrong, but I didn't feel comfortable.

The "problem" I have with the breeders in Germany is, that most of them are around 8-10h away from me. If I consider one of the kittens though, I'd just take that time, check it out and then decide to take it and pick it up 12w later or not. This, for me personally, is just a requirement.

Right now the question remains:
Do I spend around 1.000-1.500 Euro for an F4, or do I take an F3 and pay between 2.000-3.000 Euro?
So far I'm still not clear on if the additional money for the F3 would give me something that the F4 wouldn't also give me, as it's specific to the breeder (so it seems).

 

[SV Dad]

Right now the question remains:
Do I spend around 1.000-1.500 Euro for an F4, or do I take an F3 and pay between 2.000-3.000 Euro?
So far I'm still not clear on if the additional money for the F3 would give me something that the F4 wouldn't also give me, as it's specific to the breeder (so it seems).

And that's the problem. I'm glad I got a F3. I like the energy of the F3. I like the look. Could I have gotten this in a F4? Probably, but I might have had to be patient and choosy. In my opinion, the more exotic looking tends to be more directly related to the generation. But there are some stunning F5 STB's with very exotic looks. The breeding program has progressed very well. Nothing beats seeing the kitten for yourself and observing its personality. That's how the F5 originally made it to our home to start our herd.

 

[TaiShu]

And that's the problem. I'm glad I got a F3. I like the energy of the F3. I like the look. Could I have gotten this in a F4? Probably, but I might have had to be patient and choosy. In my opinion, the more exotic looking tends to be more directly related to the generation. But there are some stunning F5 STB's with very exotic looks. The breeding program has progressed very well. Nothing beats seeing the kitten for yourself and observing its personality. That's how the F5 originally made it to our home to start our herd.

And this is exactly what my observation was as well. The F3 tend to look more exotic.
Also my impression from the F3 & F4 gallery in this forum.
In this case, if no breeder tells me something else, I'll focus more on finding a proper F3.

 

[Jim & Baghira]

Heya TaiShu and Welcome to the forum!!!
I also live in Germany . I love this forum for all the people and information you can get here.
It took me a while to get Baghira.....I´ve always had dogs, but heard of the Savannahs and fell in love with them. Baghira is a F-5 SBT and everyone that meets him falls in love with him. His temperment is awesome. He loves kids and meeting new people.
I bought him because something about his picture I saw in the internet just screamed at me to get him lol. Don´t know what it was, but I fell in love with his picture that I had to get him.
That´s the picture at the bottom that I seen.
I guess I made the right decision because when I´m home he won´t live my side.....except to play with his little buddy Gimli he´s a Siberian.
So I guess all I´m trying to say is.... you´ll know when you see him or her

 

[Jim & Baghira]

Ohhh and where you from in Germany? I´m from Nürnberg