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SV Breed History

#1
Hey Ya'll,

Okay, so I know a few of you have been around Savannahs for a long, long time and I realized- I have a few questions I don't know the answer to.

Do you think the outcrosses we originally used were well thought out and well chosen or were we limited due to only certain breeders permitting us to use their cats? For example- I have a Serval and want to produce F1s and I want to use Breeder A's cats because they have exceptional cats that will add something to my F1s that I WANT. I contact Breeder A- they refuse to sell to a breeder outside of their breed- so I am left contacting Breeder B, and then Breeder C, etc.

I'm just wondering how well thought out the original lines were- considering the fact that it was all a crapshoot and we may have been limited in choice way back when.
 

admin

Paige
Staff member
#2
Hey Ya'll,

Okay, so I know a few of you have been around Savannahs for a long, long time and I realized- I have a few questions I don't know the answer to.

Do you think the outcrosses we originally used were well thought out and well chosen or were we limited due to only certain breeders permitting us to use their cats? For example- I have a Serval and want to produce F1s and I want to use Breeder A's cats because they have exceptional cats that will add something to my F1s that I WANT. I contact Breeder A- they refuse to sell to a breeder outside of their breed- so I am left contacting Breeder B, and then Breeder C, etc.

I'm just wondering how well thought out the original lines were- considering the fact that it was all a crapshoot and we may have been limited in choice way back when.
I wasn't around then, so can't answer...but...I would imagine that may have been the case, considering what goes on in the cat fancy and how many breeders do not want their lines with certain other lines or breeds.
 

F1hybrids

Savannah Super Cat
#3
First you have to get the serval to be raised happy with domestics and actually want to breed. Some boys like just one mate or two mates. Then just because you have the best mate does not mean the cat will produce F1s. Even Joyce had the problem of getting F1s no matter what the cross period. But then she had some cats that produced real well. We are limited by what bloodlines can carry. It's like find a puzzle piece, once you find it then you have accomplished only a part of the puzzle, then you have to keep looking for more pieces that fit.

I don't believe its because we can not get lines, it just that one breeder can only try so much or have so many cats at one given time.
 

admin

Paige
Staff member
#4
I agree with you to a certain extent, Michelle, but I do know breeders who will not sell breeders to others, so that limits the gene pool in my eyes...and other breeds who will not sell to Savannah breeders.
 

F1hybrids

Savannah Super Cat
#5
Oh I agree it is true, just don't think that is what the main reason behind what is used. Some of the restrictions you run into can be lengthy. Some breeders do not understand hybrids. Some understand but are not willing to risk the backlash from their own breed.

You work hard for something it makes it valuable to you, I can understand holding on some thing you have worked for years to achieve. Some times a breeder can not sell because of the retractions put on original stock.
 
#7
My personal thought is that many of the original cats were chosen with a few key things in mind:
1) size
2) Spots - seems the Servals like girls with spots more than no spots according to some.
3) Gestation - EM reportedly have a few days longer gestation than other breeds. Gestation tendancies also seem to run in certain lines.

There are enough breeders of every breed that you can invariably find someone to sell to you if you look hard enough. They may not be ideal representatives of the other breed, but for our purposes that didn't matter. In other cases the cats were placed as breeders with no papers. So you see O1T or Domestic for use in a Savannah program on certain older registrations. A DSH is permissible for one generation but used to produce F1s again it doesn't matter since any non-permissible outcross will fall off the pedigree by the time you reach SBT.
 
#8
My personal thought is that many of the original cats were chosen with a few key things in mind:
1) size
2) Spots - seems the Servals like girls with spots more than no spots according to some.
3) Gestation - EM reportedly have a few days longer gestation than other breeds. Gestation tendancies also seem to run in certain lines.

There are enough breeders of every breed that you can invariably find someone to sell to you if you look hard enough. They may not be ideal representatives of the other breed, but for our purposes that didn't matter. In other cases the cats were placed as breeders with no papers. So you see O1T or Domestic for use in a Savannah program on certain older registrations. A DSH is permissible for one generation but used to produce F1s again it doesn't matter since any non-permissible outcross will fall off the pedigree by the time you reach SBT.
See- but I'm thinking of in terms of HEALTH. Not that only the top breeders produce healthy cats, but how much looking did we do into the health of the lines we bred into?

Besides DSH- which should be pretty healthy due to its constant mix of bloodlines (but that's not necessarily true either), but what health issues do the breeds we outcrossed to carry for? For example- those who did outcross to Bengals- did they look HARD at the pedigrees to try to not bring in HCM laden lines or did they end up taking whatever Bengals they could?

Hope this makes sense! I guess I'm more interested in how F1 breeders originally brought in their purebred outcrosses before Savannahs became more 'accepted. Nowadays, I would think it would be a bit easier since the other breeds would see we are serious about progressing our own breed.
 
#9
And for example- I think on my stud's contract- I cannot outcross him to another breed of cat. This is why IF we get to the point of possibly producing Safaris, if we are not using girls we produce here- I would ask the potential breeder if it was okay to use their girl for an outcross.
 

admin

Paige
Staff member
#10
I would think that some of the other breeders who have been around since the beginning would be able to answer this Trish...hopefully they will log on later and help out.