HCM in Cats

[Michaela]

I've done it many times over the years, but usually I do have hubby to help with this... a squiggly kitten doesn't always want something squirted up the nose.

My kitten hates it if I wipe the nose.
Shower may work with moisture also.
Watch the pretty claws and scratching.



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Michaela L

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Thank you for offering to replace Romeo but I can not give him up ever. I don't ever return or replace a cat or my children.

Just on the replacement thing, I did read in Arden's post that she is also offering to replace Romeo after he passes. Hopefully of course this won't be for some time... I completely understand and agree with not wanting to return him. I didn't when my Bobo was diagnosed with his heart condition, although fortunately his breeder "replaced" him before he passed. The diagnosis from the cardiologist was enough for her, she didn't need to wait for his death.

And agreed, I don't think the anesthesia or drugs caused the HCM.

 

[Michaela]

Just on the replacement thing, I did read in Arden's post that she is also offering to replace Romeo after he passes. Hopefully of course this won't be for some time... I completely understand and agree with not wanting to return him. I didn't when my Bobo was diagnosed with his heart condition, although fortunately his breeder "replaced" him before he passed. The diagnosis from the cardiologist was enough for her, she didn't need to wait for his death.

And agreed, I don't think the anesthesia or drugs caused the HCM.

I fist hope Romeo can change and impact HCM testing with Arden at least on his pedigree.







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Michaela L

 

[Patti]

I also agree that neither pain meds nor anesthesia will cause HCM. On the other hand, the stress of surgery plus the IV fluids that are sometimes used during the procedure could potentially trigger an episode of heart failure that could be mild enough to only cause the murmur that was heard on the follow up exam, triggering further investigation. In retrospect, it may have been kismet that led to this diagnosis - much better now when he is compensated then to diagnose him after he has his first full blown episode of heart failure because he had never been diagnosed or received treatment.

 

[Michaela]

I also agree that neither pain meds nor anesthesia will cause HCM. On the other hand, the stress of surgery plus the IV fluids that are sometimes used during the procedure could potentially trigger an episode of heart failure that could be mild enough to only cause the murmur that was heard on the follow up exam, triggering further investigation. In retrospect, it may have been kismet that led to this diagnosis - much better now when he is compensated then to diagnose him after he has his first full blown episode of heart failure because he had never been diagnosed or received treatment.

He was neutered in early December
He was not eating, dehydrated and lost weight when he had the murmur.
Dehydration can worsen obstructive component of HCM.
The echo was done when he was well over 1 month later in late January when he was fine. The BNP was done over 1.5 weeks later after the echo .
He is fine and active and regained weight since the dehydration.
He is usually purring or hissing at the vet so a murmur is hard to hear unless you persist.
He is active and gets into trouble all the time like a true SV.
He is fine and happy at almost 10 mo old and + 16 lb now.






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Michaela L

 

[Michaela]

I agree with you, Patty. Everything I have read has indicated that you cannott diagnose CHF on a NT-proBNP. I have not been online and this is the first I am reading of this thread. So, I would like to say the following:

First, let me say that Michaela has been posting about a kitten she purchased from us, last year. Michaela has been offered a replacement, but to date, has not taken us up on this offer. Specifically she has been told she can return Romeo and receive a replacement as soon as our litters start arriving, and we will take care of Romeo for his lifetime OR she can keep him and care for him and at such time as he passes away , she can receive a replacement kitten at that time. Michaela has not taken us up on either offer.
We absolutely do stand behind our kittens, so I would like to dispell any rumors to the contrary. But, in 19 years of breeding, we have only had to replace two. Romeo would be the third. That being said, I do not know if breeders understand that HCM is not always hereditary and that there are idiopathic causes for this condition. Not all of the causes are known at this time, but it is believed that stress can play a major role. What Michaela did not mention was that in spite of our advice that she should have her vet use Gas ONLY during any kind of surgery, and that the ONLY pain killer we recommend for Savannahs is Torbutrol, Michaela’s vet sent Romeo home with Morphine as pain control for a simple neuter. In our experience with an average of 200 cats in our shelter on any given day, and with the spay and neuter of probably more than 1000 cats over the past ten years, we have NEVER used ANY pain killer for a simple neuter procedure. Only two other owners have ever ignored our advice on this matter. Unfortunately, one kitten was given a cocktail of ace promazine and morphine and woke up from his neuter 100% blind. The other cat was given a drug that is in the same family as Ketamine, went into a coma, and died two weeks later after being on life support. Michaela told me that Romeo developed an intermittent heart murmur AFTER his neuter surgery and after the administration of morphine. He was apparently “gone for two days” after his neuter, which is when I asked if the vet had given him any kind of pain killer and was informed about the use of morphine, which I suggested Michaela immediately stop giving him. One week later, Romeo “was sick and was taken back to the vet and antibiotics and steroids were prescribed". Before his neuter, Romeo was "superb”, with the exception that he “had to be on an all meat diet or he would get diarrhea”. (Words in quotation marls are Michaela's words to me in various emails.) That is not a surprise, of course, since Romeo was raised on a raw meat diet and not all kibble diets are agreeable to individual cats. Now, I am sure most people will agree that any kind of surgery equates with stress in any animal, but cats tend to be extremely susceptible to changes in environment, and the fact that Romeo was “superb” and 100% healthy for the first eight months of his life, and then suddenly became sick within one week of being neutered and receiving morphine, certainly suggests that this cat was, indeed, stressed. So, it is not inconceivable, to me, that stress has placed a role in the development of HCM.
Realize, that I am not “blaming” the HCM on these events, but it is sort of suspicious in my mind, especially since neither of Romeo’s parents have any symptoms of HCM whatsoever. Lady Merryn, with whom everyone is very familiar, turned eleven years of age last September. Merryn is extremely healthy. In fact, she has never been sick one single day in her entire life. She has never even had and an upper respiratory, which most cats get at least once in their lifetime. Romeo’s sire, is a four year old stud who also has never been sick in his (albeit shorter) lifetime. I should also mention, at this point that Michaela’s statement that Romeo’s “sire has mysteriously disappeared off of our website” is absolutely incorrect. His sire has NEVER been on our website for the simple reason that I have never been able to get any decent pictures of him and will not place “garbage” pictures on our website. The Gold Prince, however, is very much alive and well. We WILL get this stud tested, however, because he is considerably younger than Merryn and many cats do not develop HCM until they are 4-6 years of age. So, Gold Prince is within the age bracket where it is not inconceivable that he could be effected without us knowing anything is wrong. It is doubtful, however, that Merryn has the condition as I have not heard of a single case of HCM in a cat where the cat was asymptomatic for twelve years with absolutely no signs of illness of any kind in those twelve years.
Secondly let me say that I never once said that “this is no big deal” as Michaela has suggested. Rather, I asked the question that if he was asymptomatic, what was it that prompted Michaela to take him to the vet in the first place? How that statement was translated into “the breeder said it was no big deal” is beyond me. In Michaela’s defense, I do not think that English is Michaela’s first language.
Lastly, I have been dealing with the onset of Meniere’s disease, wherein I have been having severe and debilitating vertigo that comes and goes at unpredictable intervals. In fact, it comes and goes with absolutely no warning whatsoever. Needless to say, I have been spending a lot of time in doctors’ offices. In addition, one of our Savannahs came down with a severe upper respiratory and I was up day and night attending to her needs. And finally, just this week, one of our other Savannah females ruptured her uterus due to an undetected closed pyo that she hid very well until the last minute, when it became evident that she was ADR (ain’t doing right) and we rushed her to the vet. (The ONLY sign that something was wrong was that she had several piles of poop in her pen, which is very unusual for her. Thank God Chris was on his toes and noticed that something was off. The vet says it is not uncommon, with a closed pyo, to have no signs until the uterus actually ruptures and that if we had not gotten her into surgery, she would not have lived another 24 hours.) She underwent emergency surgery and the surgery was successful (although long), but she is still not eating well. Hence, we are worried that although the surgery was a success, the patient could still die. So, I think there is no doubt that I have had my hands full. (And all of this was right on the heels of my husband coming down with Shingles, which he, thankfully, is finally starting to recover from). So, I apologize to Michaela if I have not been 100% attentive to her needs. If I was a cat, I would probably have HCM, myself, from all of the stress I have been under for the past three months.

Maybe we can help organize a cardiology clinic in Arizona so all the breeders have the opportunity to echo if they can for a lot less then a private consult echo cost





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Michaela L

 

[Patti]

He was neutered in early December
He was not eating, dehydrated and lost weight when he had the murmur.
Dehydration can worsen obstructive component of HCM.
The echo was done when he was well over 1 month later in late January when he was fine. The BNP was done over 1.5 weeks later after the echo .
He is fine and active and regained weight since the dehydration.
He is usually purring or hissing at the vet so a murmur is hard to hear unless you persist.
He is active and gets into trouble all the time like a true SV.
He is fine and happy at almost 10 mo old and + 16 lb now.






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Michaela L

Sorry, I got the wrong impression from what Arden had posted, it doesn't sound like this had anything to do with his neuter.

 

[Patti]

Maybe we can help organize a cardiology clinic in Arizona so all the breeders have the opportunity to echo if they can for a lot less then a private consult echo cost

They used to have HCM clinics when Chris Paige was still with VetMed, I'm not sure if anyone is doing them anymore.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

BTW there's a HCM clinic planned in Santa Rosa, CA for May 17th if anyone is interested... I got an email about it and can pass on the contact details. They are estimating $125-150 a cat depending on how many they get signing up.

Clinics are such a great way to have cats scanned economically...

 

[Michaela]

HCM can occur at any age and therefore a single normal echocardiogram (ultrasound examination of the heart) does not guarantee that the cat will remain free of the disease. Cardiologists recommend that breeding cats should have an annual echocardiogram during their breeding years. Examining retired cats periodically is also advantageous as this may allow the identification of affected cats that have offspring in a breeding program.

In some countries, registers of breeding cats have been established so that the genetic status of breeding stock is recorded along with results of ultrasound scanning by a veterinary cardiologist. This information then allows more careful selection of suitable breeding cats. One such scheme is operated by the Veterinary Cardiovascular Society in the UK, with support from International Cat Care (http://www.bsavaportal.com/vcs/Information/HeartTesting.aspx), and cats registered under this scheme can be seen here: HCM Negative Register

International Cat Care believe that wherever registers of gene tests in cats are kept, these should always be linked to a means of permanently and readily identifying the tested cat - i.e., an internationally recognised microchip identifying number.

There is ongoing work looking for further mutations that may contribute to HCM in Maine Coon and Ragdoll cats, along with other breeds such as the Norwegian Forest Cat and the Sphynx where a higher prevalence of HCM has been reported or suggested.


This is from web at.
http://www.icatcare.org/advice/cat-health/hypertrophic-cardiomyopathy-hcm-and-testing


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Michaela L