Pondering F2 or F6 kitten...

[Els]

Patti - a lot can change between 2003 and now. I haven't gotten the current pictures of F2 kittens from the breeder yet and after having a conversation with her if I do decide to take a road trip to AZ it doesn't sound like she wants me to meet her at her place rather she wants to meet in a public area which I can respect since she had a bad experience of having her place vandalized. I worry about proper socialization which is essential for all kittens especially Bengals and Savannahs. It sounds like she lives alone so the kittens may not see other humans.

Now, the negatives, I did some more reading last night and came across some posts -

• Cannot pick up and put SV cat into the crate to bring to vet. I did see the local breeder picking up and holding F1 male and female SV cats but did not pick up F2 female instead she used leash to guide her.
• Ability to turn water on (I certainly don't want to come home to see a faucet running).
• Ability to open doors and cabinets - Jake opens cabinets from time to time but always open doors. I keep 2 or 3 doors locked so Jake cannot open these while he does open other doors which I don't care e.g. walk-in closet. May need to child-proof certain cabinets especially household cleaning products.
• Chew or rip toilet paper / tissues - Misty did that so I keep them out of reach. She did chew a piece of paper in den once. I imagine I will need to keep the den locked if I don't want SV kitten having access to den.
• Constantly needs attention - I work from home once or twice a week and Misty would bug me for attention but it was tolerable. SV cat may be more intense to the point it becomes annoying? Maybe I should consider F6 SV which would be less intense?

Also, I worry that SV kitten may pick on Jake. While Jake is still playful he's 13 years old so he has mellowed out a bit yet I still find doors opened when I get home. I leave plenty of toys to keep him entertained but I am sure he's lonely.

 

[Rafiki]

I have a female F3. Here are my observations:

• Catching Rafiki is the issue when bringing her to the vet. She is not an aggressive cat but she is seriously fast. We have had to permanently block out areas such as under the bed. She is also great at sensing when something is afoot and the chase is on.
• Rafiki does not turn on the water but yes, many SVs do. Make sure you do not let your SV see you get ice or water from the fridge door or you may find that you have taught him a new trick.
• Rafiki is only interested in the lingerie drawer (all bras must die) and the snack drawers. Toys are kept either in an ottoman or hope chest and the lids on both are too heavy to lift. She has seen what is in the other drawers and cabinets and they do not interest her. I am very lucky on that score. I also have very few toxic substances in the house in the way of cleaners.
• Rafiki grabs the end of the toilet paper in both paws and pulls. She is most apt to do this when she feels ignored. We need to keep the toilet lids down or she will gather a pile of TP, place it in the toilet until soggy and then fish it back out and throw the TP to whatever it will stick to - the floor, the walls, etc. She also empties kleenix boxes so they either have to be kept in a drawer or upside down.
• Paper of any kind is an invitation to shredding. Again, this is primarily to gain attention.
• Rafiki is constantly with me when I am home. I cannot be on the phone for long or she will start doing things to get attention such as tapping me on the shoulder, nipping at my knees, tossing things off the counters, jumping on top of the kitchen cabinets and biting the furniture. When this behavior occurs, her energy needs to be redirected to something acceptable such as playing fetch. Punishments, "No!", and timeouts are not effective.

Overall, Rafiki's bad behavior is more annoying and/or entertaining than any kind of problem. She has a male pixie bob who is the same age to play with. He is a large cat and fully capable of letting her know that he has had enough.

 

[WitchyWoman]

Els, any high energy kitten may be a trial for your 13 yr old. Jake may revert to kittenhood for awhile and get a burst of renewed energy from the new cat and then mellow out again. As the kitten matures, the high energy will dissipate a bit also. The cats will eventually come to an agreement and set boundaries. The kitten may not always respect those boundaries at first but likely will in time.

Having lived with Bengals, you already have a taste of what it'll be like living with a savannah. Both are high energy intelligent breeds. Two of my SVs can live without me. Two are what I call Clingons. They want to be with me every second I'm home and act like I've been gone for eons when I leave the house for a few hours. That is just part of their nature. One of my F2s hasn't caused an iota of trouble in 7 years; the other was a hellion until he was 3 yrs old. And as I've stated previously, my F6 is the biggest troublemaker in the bunch. And that's saying something because I have a nearly 2 yr old F1 who can be challenging at times.

As far as crating for the vet, I used a soft-sided carrier for play when they were kittens. Kept it in the house so they could sleep in it when they wanted to. Threw toys in it for them to fetch as well as treats. They all liked to be swung in it. We'd swing it between our legs like a child's swing. So they associated the carrier with positive things and safety. Whenever one has to go to the vet, I bring the carrier in the house 5 days before and we play in and around it. Doesn't work with all cats, but the method is something to keep in mind with your kitten.

Paper shredding, cabinet/door opening, faucets, lights -- all of that is part of living with a SV. If you are having doubts about your ability to cope with those behaviors, then you should consider another breed. You may not see all of those behaviors in your SV, but you will definitely see some. I always tell people who considering this breed that living with a SV is similar to living with a highly intelligent 3 yr old child.

 

[Els]

Deborah, you are correct. I recall after picking up Misty the next day she stole my turkey sandwich in ziploc from the lunch bag and carried all the way to my bedroom upstairs. I left the kitchen for just 2 minutes. Of course, I wasn't happy about it but at the same time I thought it was funny. I caught it before she tried to rip it apart. Of course I had to throw it away. I train my cats not to jump on kitchen countertops where food is of course I know when I'm not watching they'd get on countertops.

Anyway, the reason I'm uncertain is some folks say SV cat is 2x or 3x more intense than Bengal. It sounds as if they are almost unmanageable. That is why I'm soliciting for your opinion.

By the way, I got the current pictures of the kittens...first two are kitten #1 and the last 2 are kitten #2. I asked the breeder to try to describe the personality of each one.

 

[WitchyWoman]

Anyway, the reason I'm uncertain is some folks say SV cat is 2x or 3x more intense than Bengal. It sounds as if they are almost unmanageable. That is why I'm soliciting for your opinion.

At the end of the day you have to go with your gut. What I did prior to purchasing my first SV (an F2) was to consider all the positive and negative traits that could possibly show in my cat. I had to decide if I would love living with a cat who might possess all the traits I considered negative and none of the ones I considered positive and decided it was the worth risk. Then I took a big breath and took the plunge. I went against conventional wisdom and got a high gen SV as my first. For most of these past 8 yrs I said I would never own an F1 because of all the stuff I read about their intensity. And now I have 4 SVs including an F1. You have to have a sense of humor to enjoy life with a SV and an infinite amount of patience. They are worth it.

The kittens are adorable by the way. I wouldn't be able to choose between them and would end up getting both.

 

[williamd]

I'm in Colorado also. Colorado Springs.

 

[Carykd7kau]

With the intensity of the activity, comes the intensity of the love. Just a thought.

 

[Patti]

Els, the traits you have listed above can potentially be seen in any high energy breed kitten, not just Savannahs. However, I really dislike it when people make blanket statements that make it sound as though all Savannahs behave this way - this just serves to mislead folk like you who are trying to learn as much as possible.

Personally my cats number in the double digits (both Savannahs and Highlanders) and I have one cat that I have difficulty getting into a crate. I have three that don't like to be picked up. I have had the water turned on 'accidentally' maybe three times in the past decade. The only cat I've ever had that could open doorknobs was my Bengal. I do have safety locks on all my cabinets (above as well as below the counters) and have my TP in plastic Tupperware containers as these are more commonly seen behaviors in my home.

The cats do love to shred paper and cardboard - best toys in the world, which means good Savannah entertainment does not necessarily mean expensive entertainment (although it is messy). I have a couple of demanding Savannahs and Highlanders but just like with any other breed of cat, they spend the majority of their time sleeping during the day so I don't see it as much of an issue. As far as Jake goes, since he is used to living with a high energy cat I think he should adjust well to a new kitten in the home, and will probably be thrilled with having a new playmate.

However, as Deborah says, if you are having doubts or concerns it might be better to consider an alternative breed. I personally love the Highlanders - they are active and playful, but also very loving and cuddly. The biggest difference I find between a Highlander and a Savannah is that the Highlander doesn't have that stubborn streak seen in Savannahs that so often lead them into trouble...

 

[Patti]

Oh, and BTW, I think most breeders run a closed cattery, meaning they don't allow visitors for the most part. There are many reasons for this - concern for foul play is certainly at the top of the list, but in addition there is a very real concern of bringing in illnesses to the kittens, particularly if there are unvaccinated kittens on the premises. Then there is the issue of privacy - most breeders have home based catteries, which means you are coming to their homes when you ask to visit their cattery. Honestly, if I allowed every person who asked to see my cats, I would have a constant stream of strangers traipsing through my home. I work full time (mostly to support my breeding program which is very costly) and my time off at home is spent caring for my fur babies and catching up with life. I understand that there are folk who simply won't consider purchasing a kitten unless they are allowed to visit the cattery, and I have absolutely no issues with this - it just won't be one of my kittens they purchase...

 

[NikkiA]

Welcome to the Forum Els!
We are lucky enough to be owned by four SVs, three boys and a baby girl. Our boys are F5 Diablo, F4 Mickey Blue Eyes, and F3 Jarvis. Our little girl, F2 Baby Rey, came from Patti, she has been home since November. We love our kitties. The boys are 5 (diablo), four (Jarvis) and 3 (Mickey). Rey is 6 months.
Three of the four of them arrived very well socialized, F5 Diablo is a certified therapy pet and goes with me to nursing homes to cheer people up. F4 Mickey is a cuddle monster. Baby Rey comes running up to the door to meet all our visitors because they will play with her, therefore they are her friends she hasn't met yet, just like her big brother Diablo.

Each of our babies has a different personality. Each of them has different likes and dislikes, and different levels of stubbornness about different things.

Each has different levels of destructiveness. For some of them, it is minimal most of the time, cardboard, paper, etc., then they really smack you across the nose (figuratively. I've got one with a taste for jimmy choo and christian louboutin shoes).

They are all playful. They are all loving. They all want what they want when they want it. The difference comes in what they will let go and what they won't. I can only go 1-2 days without taking Diablo for a walk before he takes matters into his own paws and bolts. I can only go an hour home without playing with Rey before she brings me a feather wand, and tries to hand me the handle. I can only go a few minutes home before Mickey climbs me if I haven't immediately stopped for head buts and face rubs (the most memorable time was when I was on the phone, and he was yelling at me and I wasn't paying attention and he jumped up on the cabinets, took a flying leap at me, and landed with his paws on my shoulders and rammed my glasses into my forehead with the force of his momentum). If I don't share with Jarvis when I'm cooking, before or during, he will take a swipe at what I've made after unless he KNOWS there is a dish for him on the countertop for when we are done eating.

I think you will be happy to have either an F2, or an F6, or anything in between in your life. I promise whatever stubborn streak they have, will probably be made up for by the amount you will find yourself laughing at their antics.