question about my cats thyroid

[chewie]

Yep you got it right his mother is a wild/feral cat. So is his grand father. Chewie's direct father Max is a orange tabby/wild serval mix. Chewie for the record just turned 10 in May.

I was told something similar by the folks who run the shelter where his mother and grandfather live. When Chewie was born the folks that run the shelter and myself split the cost of some of that testing. I remember there was some interest by both the federal and state governments due to the legality of it all and most if not all of the testing was done to satisfy the government entities involved to make sure the kittens could be legal and fit the appropriate scope of it all from a legal standpoint. Thus is part of why he had to get neutered before I could adopt him. The state of Minnesota also has a law that all rescue/shelter pets must be sterilized, to satisfy both the state and feds and adopt him he had to get fixed to ensure I wasn't trying to breed him.

I just liked him and he has this uncanny bond with me and is the strangest pet I've ever owned in that regard, so I decided he was worth the trouble to adopt.

There's a large Somali population in Minnesota and they are where his Serval relatives from Africa came from and smuggled in by. The folks running this kitten mill were selling kittens for as much as they could get and were doing all kinds of other illicit things.

I used to come and help the folks out at the animal shelter/rescue and that's where I first met Chewie...he used to follow me around and seek me out even before his eyes were open..I got the lucky task of dealing with his mother often as she was quite protective of her kittens and she tolerated me handling them playing with etc. Needless to say that was a heart stopper on a few occasions when she'd had enough of me in her cage!

I don't have the genetic records myself but will look into getting copies now that I understand the 'rarity' of Chewie and a better understanding of his significance.

This makes more sense now as to why the vet is so awed by seeing Chewie. He's told me that Chewie is quite rare and the fact that he's not 'feral' is astounding. I personally wouldn't say he's domesticated but he's ALOT more chill than he was when he was 3 years old by a HUGE margin. Lol!

I posted in the general welcome forum with greetings to all with a fuzzy picture as Chewie is quite camera shy..he has a sixth or seventh sense for the camera lens pointed his way!! Lol I will try to get some better pics up soon but I'm currently without a real computer so thats the best I can do at the moment is from my phone and the pictures aren't the best.

Back to the topic of my post, yes I do supplement his homemade food. The vet I work with unfortunately has little info in regards to serval's in the wild and what their diet consists of so its been a huge guessing game for us. He's gotten me some vitamin stuff to mix into the home made food..were both surprised that Chewie likes veggies for a carnivore! He eats peas and carrots and a plethora of other stuff like sweet potatoes and cabbage etc. He's not fond of corn or pumpkin but I tend to make his meal as an extra portion of mine and season mine afterwards to my tastes. He's doing well on it and if I could just do that and give him the thyroid medication as a supplement that would be ideal! I don't know if that's a worthy idea or not. I'm of the understanding that the thyroid medicine comes in different forms ie liquid, pill, etc. My first thing was to just ask and see if the vet and I are missing something info wise regarding the serval's 'normal' thyroid range.

 

[Evie]

Wow! What a story. I hate to think of any wild animal being trapped and taken from the wild - it breaks my heart. What great work they are doing at the shelter who rescued (some?) the cats from that nghtmare. You have a very special cat there and it sounds as though he found himself the perfect home.
I had two DSH cats who suffered hyperthyroidism - I went for longterm medication - I was insured so the fees and tests were not a problem. I was offered radioiodine treatment for both of them but didn't think they would have coped with the quarantine period required. I would put their meds in with their food as pilling them was not an option - too stressful for all. They both lived until they were about 16-17 but it was up and down with their weights and health the whole time. My mum has recently had the radioiodine treatment on her 14 year old DSH and he is cured. I hope very much that you find the solution for Chewie in order for him to live a long and happy life. Any chance of your vet treating him for free for research purposes? Or is that a but cheeky! ? Good luck and keep us posted

 

[chewie]

I should clarify both the previous post as well as one further up...

My comment about the vet and Chewie being fixed had to do with the vet explaining to me that since Chewie is fixed and doesn't have any kittens that can be tested its hard to prove that he's x so many % serval himself. The vet explained that he is at least 50% based on his mother being a serval, (the wild cat from Africa) and his father being a 50% serval 50% tabby mix Chewie could be UP to 75% or more based upon what genetics he inherited but its impossible to know exactly without having known genetics that he bred with. There's the possibility he inherited more tabby genes from his father being a 50-50 mix, or whatever his fathers genetics carried is 60/40 etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong please, as this is just what I've been told and don't know because I'm just a pet owner not a breeder. I might just be misunderstanding how a genetics test works, or perhaps the types of tests that were done are not applicable etc.

I was under the impression that most savannahs are a 50% mix but never gave it much thought due to not looking to breed Chewie and just wanting to give him a good home and happy life.

If the 75% f1 thing is important to the history of the breed I'm interested in documenting it for posterity's sake but I also don't want to detract from the legitimate breeders who work very hard to provide pets of a "purebred" lineage.

I'd be interested in how or where to document this for Chewie's contribution to the breed as he can't have offspring. Any help or guidance would be appreciated in that regard as I'm totally clueless how to do that or contribute this to the Savannah cat community. Perhaps this is needing to go into another subject area on the board but I'm clueless as to where. I don't want to step on the breeders toes either as Chewie didn't come from a "reputable" breeder..quite the opposite honestly. The folks that run the rescue shelter encouraged me to make that clear that if its useful to breeders or for history's sake do it, otherwise don't infringe on the breed due to Chewie's origins...which is how I've looked at it all along. Was hoping to gather more info from people who have more history and experience with the Savannah breed as I'm find the need for deeper information resources currently.

Unfortunately I'm totally ignorant in this area and never gave it a second thought until Chewie started having this thyroid problem and the vet brought it up as a possibility of something to research to give Chewie a better health care outcome instead of just guessing and experimenting with his health.

 

[chewie]

@Evie

Yes they are lucky cats to be taken into that type of setting after such a bad ordeal.

I have a question regarding the long term medication route..

1 is there a "baseline" period involved with the straight medication? If so what was your experience with it?

2 what were the weight/health swings like?

3 were you using the pills or the liquid version of the medication?

I have actually gotten the vet to waive some of the fees at his office but alas not all of them mostly the things he has to outsource. Tests meds etc. We were recently accepted into the UofM exotic animal program that is a insurance of sorts that's help deffered a lot of the cost but oddly enough has RAISED the cost of his prescription food! That's part of why im looking into other ideas currently before winter hits and my time is spread more thinly.

The cats from Chewie's litter as well as the ones from his dads (max's) litter were all adopted by loving homes. The two wild serval's live in rural MN at a private shelter that is smaller but has a bobcat that was raised by humans and was rescued there as well as quite a few horses and llamas who are rescues/farm animals. The folks that run it don't do it for anything other than to give these animals a safe and happy life to help right the wrongs of other people not using their brains correctly.

Thanks for the reply and I'm curious to your experience with your cats thyroid woes.

Ben

 

[Evie]

Hi Ben,

This was some years ago now but I believe the drug was Methimazole (Tapazole), that's still being used today - although I can't swear to it. It was in pill form at that time and so I ground them up and mixed it in with their food. The medication now comes in a liquid form or a gel that can be put on the ears? The correct dose seems to vary for each cat so I think it did take several weeks of trying different doses and at either two or three times a day. It is too long ago for me to remember exactly how long it took to stabilize them - but I think a couple of months. The indicators that the dose wasn't working were vomiting and lethargy, along with the blood analysis. The weight of my cats fluctuated between half a kilo. The treatment is probably far more effective now. My cats would not always eat their food so I could never be sure that they were getting the correct dose. I did the best I could at the time. The cats were a brother and sister that I rescued and were so nervous about just about everything! They hated the vet - would try and eat their way out of the carrier. They both lived for a good few years on the medication but with hindsight - and my Mums success with her cat - I would have gone down the Radioiodine treatment route. Her cat seems to be in good health and is living a happy life. I know that is not an option for you at this point. I have heard that another option is a specific diet sourced from your vet but that is has to be fed exclusively in order to be effective? This must be the diet you have Chewie on? I hope you manage to get this balanced out.

I am pleased to hear that you are getting some support with your vets fees. It sounds as though you have done a good deal of research already and I wondered whether you could research your own low - iodine diet for Chewie?

I can only go on my own experience and the other owners on here have far more than me so hopefully they will have some good advice for you.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[WitchyWoman]

Ben…please read the link I gave above from cat info.org. Scroll down to the discussion about the y/d diet and its deficiencies overall. Discuss with your vet. My first recommendation is to try to wean Chewie off the veggies that are high in carbs. Obligate carnivores are not equipped to process carbs regardless of whether they have developed a taste for them. There are a few papers out on the net indicating that soy is suspected to cause hyperthyroidism so if there is any of that in his diet, you might want to eliminate it.

Remember that most vets receive either insufficient education regarding nutrition of companion animals or none at all so it's important to not simply accept that a recommended diet is going to improve health without doing your own research.

And please know that I am not attempting to undermine your vet's knowledge or your faith in him, just throwing things out there to consider in the scheme of things. Several sources on the net I've read indicate that there is always abnormal thyroid tissue present in hyperthyroidism even if a tumor isn't detected. So treating with medication should help and the radio iodine would cure.

Your vet has probably already told you that this disease is a common one in elder cats so I would suspect that Chewie's heritage doesn't play into it unless he has inherited genes that make him susceptible to the disease. There is very little on the net I could find about hyperthyroidism in captive exotic cats other than a few cases relating to very old animals -- one was 18 and the other 23 years. In both those cases the cats were fed species appropriate diets for their lifetimes (raw meat).

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Yep you got it right his mother is a wild/feral cat. So is his grand father. Chewie's direct father Max is a orange tabby/wild serval mix. Chewie for the record just turned 10 in May.

His mother was a feral cat or his mother was a Serval? This could be important... as I can more readily believe that the mother is a feral cat from Africa. There is a cat breed called the Sokoke (http://tica.org/introduction/item/345) that was taken from the wilds of Kenya for example. They have a fairly distinctive look, and from the albeit out of focus pic you posted of Chewie on another thread, it is possible that Chewie descends more from that kind of "wild cat" than from a Serval.

Definitely get the records of any testing done. It would be good for our breed to KNOW if such a thing did happen. I don't think it at all relevant that this may have been done by a non-breeder, the very first documented Savannah was an accidental birth!

Without confirming that Chewie indeed is majority Serval (which from the one fuzzy pic I doubt) the thyroid values that would be important are the domestic cat "normal"...I wouldn't make any assumptions on his treatment unless you had documented proof that he is anything more than that.

I agree with WitchyWoman that it sounds like you are feeding Chewie too much carbs... cats should eat mostly meat and you are not doing his health any favors by giving him a lot of vegetables, even if he seems to like them.

 

[Kristin]

I don't know very much about thyroid problems, but isn't radioiodine essentially radiating the thyroid and getting rid of it? My friend has a dog that has thyroid issues. She is 5 years old and medication free as my friend has used dessicated (sp?) thyroid (thyroid from a cow) to manage it. It helps regulate the thyroid and get it working as it should again.

 

[WitchyWoman]

isn't radioiodine essentially radiating the thyroid and getting rid of it?

The isotope enters and kills only abnormal cells and leaves healthy cells alone. That's one of the great things about this treatment option.

 

[SV Dad]

Years ago, I had a cat with hyperthyroidism. It was discovered in the later years of this DSH rescue cat. The first symptoms of note were a persistent licking that ended up with her belly devoid of fur. Testing revealed the diagnosis of hyperthyroidism. There was no evidence of a thyroid tumor. Treatment was with methimazole (Tapazole). At first it was the tablets, then went to the topical route as the oral route was precipitating a daily battle to administer. The topical route worked fine. The constant licking stopped, the fur grew back and the cat started putting weight back on. About 2 years later this cat developed diabetes. This was very successfully treated with Lantus insulin. The vet was unfamiliar with basal insulin, and I educated him about the advantages. The vet went on to put several other diabetic cats on it as the results were consistent and favorable (as in excellent fructosamine levels). The cat passed away due to old age, not the ravages of the diseases she had.