Rabbit Organs

[John Popp]

I do take Chongo for walks but he doesn't eat any grass. Not all that concerned with him keeping regular as often enough he digs his nose into the other cats food which has some pumpkin in it. Also has some butter in it and I think when he wants a little extra fat he dips his nose in.

I definitely have put a lot of thought into our cats diet, just the whole rabbit organ thing led me to question what I was doing with Rabbit Organs.

 

[WitchyWoman]

I definitely have put a lot of thought into our cats diet, just the whole rabbit organ thing led me to question what I was doing with Rabbit Organs.

Maybe I'm making this too simple, but if you figure it like a whole prey model, if you use (for example), 6 rabbits with bones, then shouldn't you use 6 each of whatever organs you have on hand.

 

[John Popp]

Agreed Deborah, and it would work well with smaller prey. With larger prey, such as a Lion taking down a Gazelle, or a Serval taking down a hare, they don't eat all of it. They leave behind larger bones, backs, ribs but largely eat all the muscle meat and organs. It's never going to be exact, and what a cat would eat in the wild is preordained by opportunity.

 

[John Popp]

BTW, Here's some good data I found,

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf

 

[MattM]

BTW, Here's some good data I found,

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf

This information is right up my alley and actually helps me a lot with my question about calcium. It should be reliable right? When I read your question I initially thought that maybe rabbit liver is unique in some way and may have high levels of a certain nutrient that poultry gizzards do not. You can actual die from vitamin A toxicity from eating polar bear liver. I proceeded to look up rabbit liver data information without any luck. Before looking at your whole prey information, I was really expecting vitamin A or vitamin E to be extremely high. However, whole carcass rabbit doesn't seem to be too high in either of those. I read that rabbits have a unique ability to synthesize vitamin a from various precursors, so I was really expecting high levels of vitamin A there. Maybe the whole carcass analysis is inaccurate? You can drive yourself nuts thinking about this stuff because there is just so much unanswered information.

Very interesting information though that most DM values for whole carcass prey in calcium is close to 2-3% when the AAFCO sets the standard requirement for commercial cat food at 1%. This information makes me a little more confident that I can add bones to the Mazuri supplement for slab meat without causing kitty problems.

 

[John Popp]

I think that information is about as reliable as it gets. Enough to back me off a bit on the rabbit organs and as Jacq mentioned the knowledge of what a varied diet brings is always your friend.

 

[WitchyWoman]

John,

I emailed Lisa Pierson regarding her statement about not adding additional rabbit organs and here is her reply.

Hi Deborah,
Why would you add extra organs? The last time I checked, rabbits, in the wild, only come with one set. :>)
Kind regards,
Dr. Pierson

 

[John Popp]

Well, that's interesting and I appreciate you spending the time to send her a note. Dr Pierson needs to answer that when being reminded of how many livers a chicken has and also how many chickens are a set of legs with a beak. It certainly could be that she believes rabbit is the perfect pre-packaged food and perhaps the target of where her chicken recipe ends up.

I'm a huge fan of Dr Pierson and the info on her page always continues to be updated. She has been the basis for the recipes we have in use, and any changes made (such as cooked salmon as opposed to fish oil) have always been to land at the same targets as her chicken recipe.

Now armed with the nutrient data from the USDA Whole Prey Study, I am certainly going to dive into what I do with my rabbit recipe. I have always been a proponent of using hearts as opposed to powdered taurine and really the only concern is the amount of liver. Unfortunately, I can't buy rabbit hearts and livers separately and I'll probably need to do some sorting next time through.

So thanks for being persistent on this Deborah and I'm sure where I end up provides healthy meals for our cats. All of them are currently doing very well and even the old guy who was posting some high kidney numbers is model of health for 17 year old since converting him to a raw diet, unfortunately his nickel head and million dollar body still gets him into trouble.