Breeding Nonstandard Savannahs for Beginners

[Trish Allearz]

BTW- if you had kept Cinnie, as an established breeder, it would be different from starting out with Cinnie. I know you know this, but I wanted to point this out to the readers at large. You have a firm grasp on genetics, you have a good idea what judges want out of our breed and what the breed standard is- keeping Cinnie would be a calculated risk on your part that at this point, I think your cattery could easily handle.

It's not the same with new breeders. It is a risk that puts you in the hole- so to speak- before you've even got your feet firmly on the ground!

 

[admin]

BTW- if you had kept Cinnie, as an established breeder, it would be different from starting out with Cinnie. I know you know this, but I wanted to point this out to the readers at large. You have a firm grasp on genetics, you have a good idea what judges want out of our breed and what the breed standard is- keeping Cinnie would be a calculated risk on your part that at this point, I think your cattery could easily handle.

It's not the same with new breeders. It is a risk that puts you in the hole- so to speak- before you've even got your feet firmly on the ground!

I agree Trish - thanks! it has been a very difficult decision and Cinny is still not spayed...that is how torn I am/was If I knew when I was moving, I would not spay her....just like I would not have neutered Ixas

 

[Mrs.CC]

Thank you, Trish, for taking the time to explain it all to me. It all sounds so very complicated, which makes me all the happier that I just want to enjoy my fur babies for the loving pets that they are. You breed them, and the rest of us will just need them!

 

[John Popp]

John- you were not looking for a breeding cat therefore looking at all of your options is best. It is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ballgame between purchasing a breeder and purchasing a pet. When you look for a pet- you look for the kitty that speaks to your heart most. When you are looking to improve your cattery or START your cattery, you need to put aside your 'cute kitten' feelings and be more critical. You HAVE to look for breed standard or else- why breed Savannahs? Why not just breed moggies and call them what they are- domestic shorthairs?

I agree Trish. My primary contention is that there are a load of positive attributes of the breed that the standard is totally remiss in addressing. There are breeders in the market who command a premium for their kittens and are far removed from adhering to the breed standard. Beautiful cats commanding more dollars than their competitors while at the same time they would be an abject failure at a TICA event.

Here's a cat that bears many serval attributes, is larger than most Savannahs yet carries the majority of what the market is looking for. I'll leave the breeders name out of it, although I'm sure you're aware of who they are. As a pet purchaser it's what the market is looking for and as a breeder a cat that meets a market void promoted by competitors stringent adherence to breed standards.

 

[Mrs.CC]

Btw, what exactly is a moggie?

 

[WitchyWoman]

Here's a cat that bears many serval attributes, is larger than most Savannahs yet carries the majority of what the market is looking for. I'll leave the breeders name out of it, although I'm sure you're aware of who they are. As a pet purchaser it's what the market is looking for and as a breeder a cat that meets a market void promoted by competitors stringent adherence to breed standards.

I don't agree with you on this one John. Looks more like Bengal spots to me and if I wanted a Bengal maybe I'd be interested. I would consider it unethical if a breeder put a premium price on such a kitten and caveat emptor to potential purchasers. I would argue that the majority of SV, or Bengal, or Ragdoll (insert your favorite breed here) purchasers want a kitten as close to the standard as possible. To me, personality and breed standard were not separate factors between which I would choose. When I found out about SVs, I was first attracted to the look and delighted by the description of their personalities second. I assumed that the kitten would come with an SV personality and I focused on breed standard when I started looking.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

As Trish said so well, this isn't about the nonstandard colors and patterns being ugly or less attractive, the breed Standard is written to mimic the look of the Serval...and Servals mainly come in a brown spotted tabby form with a few exceptions. And it is possible one of those rare exceptions is not represented in our Standard and it will be complicated to add it.

Trish also mentions our New Traits option to add colors. But actually, Trish, TICA will not look askance if we start to show some new colors or patterns now. We did make a decision about a year before our application to advance to hold off on asking to accept colorpoint (snow) after all to when we could utilize the New Traits program. I tend to suspect that it will be colorpoint that is asked to be added before marble is. After all, the snow Savannahs can claim to mimic a coloring we do see in the Serval, the white Serval.

What I am reading here is that pet owners are disturbed but they don't show their cats. The breed Standard is for showing primarily and hence also what good breeders aim for. That doesn't mean that a great Servally-looking cat can't be born in an unexpected color or pattern, just it can't then be shown as Savannah... possibly household pet though!

My very first Savannah is a gorgeous boy, but he does NOT fit our Standard in many ways even though he is a BST. Doesn't make him an ugly cat, I think he's really handsome but he just isn't a good Savannah in type. Still, he is responsible for me falling in love with the breed and becoming a breeder and rescuer and exhibitor.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

I agree Trish. My primary contention is that there are a load of positive attributes of the breed that the standard is totally remiss in addressing. There are breeders in the market who command a premium for their kittens and are far removed from adhering to the breed standard. Beautiful cats commanding more dollars than their competitors while at the same time they would be an abject failure at a TICA event.

Here's a cat that bears many serval attributes, is larger than most Savannahs yet carries the majority of what the market is looking for. I'll leave the breeders name out of it, although I'm sure you're aware of who they are. As a pet purchaser it's what the market is looking for and as a breeder a cat that meets a market void promoted by competitors stringent adherence to breed standards.

If this is an example of what you think our Standard should allow... a more compact body type, smaller ears not as upright but more to side of head and rosettes...may I suggest you look at the Bengal breed standard? TICA would FLIP if we wanted to allow this! LOL!

 

[Trish Allearz]

Btw, what exactly is a moggie?

I think it's British slang for an alley cat- or mixed breed kitty I just love the term a lot more then alley cat or mix! It's cute and hey, I have two moggies myself!

 

[Trish Allearz]

As Trish said so well, this isn't about the nonstandard colors and patterns being ugly or less attractive, the breed Standard is written to mimic the look of the Serval...and Servals mainly come in a brown spotted tabby form with a few exceptions. And it is possible one of those rare exceptions is not represented in our Standard and it will be complicated to add it.

Trish also mentions our New Traits option to add colors. But actually, Trish, TICA will not look askance if we start to show some new colors or patterns now. We did make a decision about a year before our application to advance to hold off on asking to accept colorpoint (snow) after all to when we could utilize the New Traits program. I tend to suspect that it will be colorpoint that is asked to be added before marble is. After all, the snow Savannahs can claim to mimic a coloring we do see in the Serval, the white Serval.

What I am reading here is that pet owners are disturbed but they don't show their cats. The breed Standard is for showing primarily and hence also what good breeders aim for. That doesn't mean that a great Servally-looking cat can't be born in an unexpected color or pattern, just it can't then be shown as Savannah... possibly household pet though!

My very first Savannah is a gorgeous boy, but he does NOT fit our Standard in many ways even though he is a BST. Doesn't make him an ugly cat, I think he's really handsome but he just isn't a good Savannah in type. Still, he is responsible for me falling in love with the breed and becoming a breeder and rescuer and exhibitor.

I think it will be colorpoint too when people actually start showing in New Traits- I also wonder when that will be

One key note I think I didn't stress enough is the fact that TICA is FANTASTIC because we have a Household Pet category where you CAN show nonpermissible colors/patterns/mutations, etc. While you might roll your eyes and think that's just a loser category- right? Only the freaks and geeks who can't get into the regular breed category go there- or the MOGGIES? (LOL) You'd be seriously wrong. The HHP competition is FIERCE- from kitten to adult. But it is so much fun as well! We'll probably show one of the cinnies in HHP if we have them when the next show is in Vegas.