Breeding Nonstandard Savannahs for Beginners

[Brigitte Cowell]

I think it will be colorpoint too when people actually start showing in New Traits- I also wonder when that will be

One key note I think I didn't stress enough is the fact that TICA is FANTASTIC because we have a Household Pet category where you CAN show nonpermissible colors/patterns/mutations, etc. While you might roll your eyes and think that's just a loser category- right? Only the freaks and geeks who can't get into the regular breed category go there- or the MOGGIES? (LOL) You'd be seriously wrong. The HHP competition is FIERCE- from kitten to adult. But it is so much fun as well! We'll probably show one of the cinnies in HHP if we have them when the next show is in Vegas.

Agreed, some of the most determined and obsessed exhibitors in TICA are those that show Household Pets! They travel all over the country with their darling kitties and just adore them. It's great to see...even if I can't imagine being that dedicated to showing...

And there also are the shows where you can sit through a Household Pet Kitten ring and play "guess the breed" as there are so many kittens of obvious breeds, just with some reason why they don't fit the standard...color, pattern, a patch of white, a kinked tail...

What I love most about HHP classes is that the focus is on health and personality, which should be the first two priorities for any breed in any case

 

[John Popp]

The kitten as illustrated is largely serval it also has bengal, safari, and asian fishing cat in it's lineage. It's large, athletic, has a pleasant temperament and has the exotic look that attracts buyers. It's certainly not labeled a Savannah as it pushes the bar as to what can be genetically produced and with all the clamoring around a restrictive standard there is a low ceiling as to what can be produced. It also strikes me as odd that breeders gush over a chocolate, Lilac, Blue or Snow kittens and then show disdain for what is possible outside the breed standard.

 

[Trish Allearz]

The kitten as illustrated is largely serval it also has bengal, safari, and asian fishing cat in it's lineage. It's large, athletic, has a pleasant temperament and has the exotic look that attracts buyers. It's certainly not labeled a Savannah as it pushes the bar as to what can be genetically produced and with all the clamoring around a restrictive standard there is a low ceiling as to what can be produced. It also strikes me as odd that breeders gush over a chocolate, Lilac, Blue or Snow kittens and then show disdain for what is possible outside the breed standard.

Uh, John, dear?

You are forgetting TYPE.

I don't care what color a kitten is, but I will gush over (well) a cute kitten, but I will DROOL over TYPE.

That kitten doesn't have type. I highly-highly doubt that cat has Safari in him too- as well as Asian Fishing Cat- but hey, call me a Doubting Thomas. And no, I don't know the breeder, but I doubt it'd be one I'd associate with due to the supposed lineage of that kitten. I think a Safari should LOOK like a Geoffrey- that's the point. A Savannah should LOOK like a Serval- that's the point. I don't care about color- color is just the finishing touch. Geoffs have tiny little rounded ears, gorgeous eyes, are the quickest little devils around- love them! Servals are tall, leggy, HUGE ears. That kitten doesn't look like either- from the rear anyways.

 

[Trish Allearz]

Now I want to add...

I think type is what leaves people confused when it comes to colors. We think of color and type going hand in hand- and in the show hall, YES, it has to! But outside of the show hall, within a pet home or even within a cattery- you can have a million kittens that are the perfect COLOR, but color isn't the hard part- TYPE is.

Ask yourself- those of you who have nonstandard color kittens- what drew you to your kitten? I can tell you- my first SV was my nonstandard red and white male, Simon. Like I told my husband the day I saw him, if you inverted the colors on his photo to black and white and did the same with a Serval- you'd have a hard time telling the difference between the two. Oh sure, I might have exaggerated a bit- but to me, that SAYS Simon was oozing type. He had the big, big ears- but not just big ears! No, we want them up high on the head- way down low would be OS and we don't want those oomie-zoomie ears (cute as they are!). Long, long legs. Big nose leather. Nice shape to his eyes, etc.

So don't confuse type and color- they don't necessarily go hand in hand outside of the show hall. INSIDE of the show hall, one HOPES they go hand in hand, but that's up to the judges to decide!

 

[WitchyWoman]

Trish the only thing that confuses me is why color is not considered a part of type. If there are marbled servals etc., then no issues. But, if you want a cat that looks like a serval shouldn't that also include the coat patterns & colors that occur in the serval? Otherwise, we would all be explaining that our tall, long, big eared pink polka-dotted cats with puffy nose leather bear some resemblance to a serval if a serval came in pink polka dots, KWIM?

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

The kitten as illustrated is largely serval it also has bengal, safari, and asian fishing cat in it's lineage. It's large, athletic, has a pleasant temperament and has the exotic look that attracts buyers. It's certainly not labeled a Savannah as it pushes the bar as to what can be genetically produced and with all the clamoring around a restrictive standard there is a low ceiling as to what can be produced. It also strikes me as odd that breeders gush over a chocolate, Lilac, Blue or Snow kittens and then show disdain for what is possible outside the breed standard.

Gushing about how cute or attractive a nonstandard color or pattern in a kitten is, is NOT saying that the kitten is what we wish to attain in our breed. I think you are misunderstanding!

And that picture you posted was posted as an example of what we should be breeding, hence the remarks on it's TYPE which is a completely different thing.

If you had said that was a Habari kitten, then we'd not have commented on type as a Savannah kitten. Certainly different breeds are developed for different people, different markets etc. The Habari is for a person more focused on size and a "wild" look, while the Savannah is specifically designed to replicate the look of a Serval. Different aims. Although there ARE Savannah breeders focussing on size too... those breeders are there, they just don't show their cats but produce only for the pet market. The only issue I have with that is when they end up in shelters it can be hard to determine what breed they are so that a breed-specific rescue group can take them and home them.

 

[WitchyWoman]

We posted at the same time. But I'm still confused about the reason for the fine line when distinguishing good type while not being as stringent about coat color & pattern.

 

[Trish Allearz]

Gushing about how cute or attractive a nonstandard color or pattern in a kitten is, is NOT saying that the kitten is what we wish to attain in our breed. I think you are misunderstanding!

And that picture you posted was posted as an example of what we should be breeding, hence the remarks on it's TYPE which is a completely different thing.

If you had said that was a Habari kitten, then we'd not have commented on type as a Savannah kitten. Certainly different breeds are developed for different people, different markets etc. The Habari is for a person more focused on size and a "wild" look, while the Savannah is specifically designed to replicate the look of a Serval. Different aims. Although there ARE Savannah breeders focussing on size too... those breeders are there, they just don't show their cats but produce only for the pet market. The only issue I have with that is when they end up in shelters it can be hard to determine what breed they are so that a breed-specific rescue group can take them and home them.

Ah, I had to go look up the Habari- it's been a long, long time since I've looked at that specific website!

I wouldn't see the point of mixing a Geoff hybrid with a SV hybrid with a... whatever hybrid. I can't find a 'Watch Me Grow' page on them and while they say they breed to a strict standard, I can't find that either and cannot figure out WHAT they would cater to as far as using that many different exotics in one lineage.

Are the kittens cute? OF COURSE! But I'd love to know exactly the point behind the breeding. I think you'd lose some of the exotic appeal by using a mishmash of lineages, but perhaps if a standard was on that site (is there?)- I'd understand it more.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

We posted at the same time. But I'm still confused about the reason for the fine line when distinguishing good type while not being as stringent about coat color & pattern.

Isn't our standard the opposite though? We are stringent on coat color and pattern, yet we can show a cat with bad ears for example? I know, I showed Baz who although his type is great on many points he has outrageously bad ears in size, shape and set :-(

Or do you mean that it seems that pet owners are not distinguishing this?

 

[Trish Allearz]

Trish the only thing that confuses me is why color is not considered a part of type. If there are marbled servals etc., then no issues. But, if you want a cat that looks like a serval shouldn't that also include the coat patterns & colors that occur in the serval? Otherwise, we would all be explaining that our tall, long, big eared pink polka-dotted cats with puffy nose leather bear some resemblance to a serval if a serval came in pink polka dots, KWIM?

Type is harder to produce, Deb.

Some breeders will concentrate on color to the point that they'd keep a kitten with smaller ears, shorter legs, etc, over a kitten with very nice ears, good placement, good legs, etc- just because one is a nonstandard color.

Other breeders will say, "We need to build the barn before we can paint it". We are more concerned with structure versus color.

In this, there are differing opinions and always will be