Considering buying an F1 kitten - does anyone know this breeder?

[Brigitte Cowell]

The guarantee is a full refund for lifetime? That is unusual!

Does the guarantee require the cat to die? This was something I discussed years ago with the breeder involved when my Savannah I mentioned was diagnosed with a heart valve defect. His contract actually did state that he had to die of a defect for the guarantee... and he would have died if I wasn't the conscientious owner that I am. The cardiologists gave him less than six months, but by spending the money and being super-careful with his health he's still with us. So should the breeder pay out that refund? According to the terms of the contract she didn't have to, but morally she felt responsible and so we did get a replacement (which ended up being a downpayment on a breeding female when I decided to start breeding).

Now I am not saying that it is a given, I just like to point out the flaws in "guarantees" ... because we often just see "guarantee" and think all is covered...always good to read the fine print and then consider what that actually means. I remember with the Ashera cat (that scam where they sold Savannahs for ridiculously inflated prices) they "guaranteed" the cat would be a 30lb cat. But if you read the text, you had to keep the cat for four years, and if the cat did not attain that size you had to return it and they would provide a replacement within two years after that. Meanwhile, the company has disappeared.

Also realize this isn't a reply so much specifically for your case, Logan, but more as a discussion of any contract and things that anyone shopping for a kitten might think about

 

[Trish Allearz]

The guarantee is a full refund for lifetime? That is unusual!

Does the guarantee require the cat to die? This was something I discussed years ago with the breeder involved when my Savannah I mentioned was diagnosed with a heart valve defect. His contract actually did state that he had to die of a defect for the guarantee... and he would have died if I wasn't the conscientious owner that I am. The cardiologists gave him less than six months, but by spending the money and being super-careful with his health he's still with us. So should the breeder pay out that refund? According to the terms of the contract she didn't have to, but morally she felt responsible and so we did get a replacement (which ended up being a downpayment on a breeding female when I decided to start breeding).

Now I am not saying that it is a given, I just like to point out the flaws in "guarantees" ... because we often just see "guarantee" and think all is covered...always good to read the fine print and then consider what that actually means. I remember with the Ashera cat (that scam where they sold Savannahs for ridiculously inflated prices) they "guaranteed" the cat would be a 30lb cat. But if you read the text, you had to keep the cat for four years, and if the cat did not attain that size you had to return it and they would provide a replacement within two years after that. Meanwhile, the company has disappeared.

Also realize this isn't a reply so much specifically for your case, Logan, but more as a discussion of any contract and things that anyone shopping for a kitten might think about

Great questions and food for thought, B!

 

[Logan Fuller]

The guarantee is a full refund for lifetime? That is unusual!

Does the guarantee require the cat to die? This was something I discussed years ago with the breeder involved when my Savannah I mentioned was diagnosed with a heart valve defect. His contract actually did state that he had to die of a defect for the guarantee... and he would have died if I wasn't the conscientious owner that I am. The cardiologists gave him less than six months, but by spending the money and being super-careful with his health he's still with us. So should the breeder pay out that refund? According to the terms of the contract she didn't have to, but morally she felt responsible and so we did get a replacement (which ended up being a downpayment on a breeding female when I decided to start breeding).

Now I am not saying that it is a given, I just like to point out the flaws in "guarantees" ... because we often just see "guarantee" and think all is covered...always good to read the fine print and then consider what that actually means. I remember with the Ashera cat (that scam where they sold Savannahs for ridiculously inflated prices) they "guaranteed" the cat would be a 30lb cat. But if you read the text, you had to keep the cat for four years, and if the cat did not attain that size you had to return it and they would provide a replacement within two years after that. Meanwhile, the company has disappeared.

Also realize this isn't a reply so much specifically for your case, Logan, but more as a discussion of any contract and things that anyone shopping for a kitten might think about

I completely agree - it's always very important to ensure that these kinds of things are spelled out in the purchase contract, especially when the cat is so expensive! According to my breeder's contract:

3. The Seller also gives a LIFETIME guarantee for any fatal inherited defects. The seller will replace the animal free of charge with another of equal quality at the earliest possible time after the demise of said cat. Official medical pathology documentation from an independent Veterinary Pathologist will be mandated in order for this guarantee to be valid.

It's not a monetary refund, but it means I could still have a pet Savannah after I'd had some time to come to terms with the loss.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

But realize then, that say in the case of my Bobo, you wouldn't be getting anything for some years. The longer your cat persists with that defect, you will be absorbing all the cost of that...so in the case of HCM if you detected early and was careful with medication and regular cardiac ultrasounds, your cat will have that defect but you will not be eligible for a replacement until after the demise of that cat (and after you've expended more than the cost of a replacement kitty in vet bills and medications). Which could be ten years from now, and that breeder may no longer be breeding. Just food for thought.... but that's why I'd rather buy from a breeder that spends money and time on testing of their breeding cats than rely on any guarantee of the kittens.

 

[Trish Allearz]

But realize then, that say in the case of my Bobo, you wouldn't be getting anything for some years. The longer your cat persists with that defect, you will be absorbing all the cost of that...so in the case of HCM if you detected early and was careful with medication and regular cardiac ultrasounds, your cat will have that defect but you will not be eligible for a replacement until after the demise of that cat (and after you've expended more than the cost of a replacement kitty in vet bills and medications). Which could be ten years from now, and that breeder may no longer be breeding. Just food for thought.... but that's why I'd rather buy from a breeder that spends money and time on testing of their breeding cats than rely on any guarantee of the kittens.

That's exactly what I was thinking after reading this thread... It's worth talking to the breeder about, Logan- in my eyes, it would encourage a crappy owner to euthanize first versus putting money into a cat that has a manageable condition. I know- you probably don't want to seem pushy, but it's just worth talking to them about.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

I like the idea that these conversations might encourage us breeders to rethink how we word our contracts... AND make buyers consider what they are signing with the contract. Both are good and positive things imho

And I LOVE a buyer that actually asks me questions about my contract, it shows they actually read it!

 

[Logan Fuller]

I like the idea that these conversations might encourage us breeders to rethink how we word our contracts... AND make buyers consider what they are signing with the contract. Both are good and positive things imho

And I LOVE a buyer that actually asks me questions about my contract, it shows they actually read it!

The fact that a lifetime guarantee could cause an owner to be more likely to euthanize their cat is a very good point; I hadn't thought of that. It's very important to the breeder I'm dealing with to keep her customers happy (I get almost daily updates on the parents, she includes a hand made walking jacket with every kitten, etc.), so I think that this clause in her contract is an attempt to put her buyers' minds at ease. I suppose there's no easy way to include a guarantee without risking the owner jumping the gun on a treatable disease.

I'll double check this particular mother, but from what I've heard she tests all of her breeding cats (I don't want to make anyone on here think that she doesn't care about the health of her kittens!).

 

[admin]

Teresa has a stealth reputation and her kittens are known to be quite healthy and very well socialized.

I would not hesitate to buy an F1 from her. However, i would make sure that testing was done. I test zuri for hcm, even though Savannahs have no real hcm issue known.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Trish Allearz]

Teresa has a stealth reputation and her kittens are known to be quite healthy and very well socialized.

I would not hesitate to buy an F1 from her. However, i would make sure that testing was done. I test zuri for hcm, even though Savannahs have no real hcm issue known.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

It's just healthy to have an open line of discourse between buyer/breeder- and as far as the contract goes, no, you can't please everyone, but sometimes we have things in our contracts that we don't even realize the ramifications behind it. For example- my original contracts were mock-ups of my first Sphynx contract- my contract has morphed a lot over the years as I've had open discourse with owners, other breeders, and of course, myself!

 

[WitchyWoman]

A lifetime guaranteed replacement for a cat would not make a bit of difference to me if it means I'm taking the chance of getting another defective cat from the same breeder. What good is a lifetime guarantee for a chance to watch your cats slowly die. I realize this is a purely emotional response to the issue but it is one with which I would wrestle personally if I lost a cat under these circumstances. I know that one bad cat does not mean the breeder will have subsequent bad cats, but on a psychological level when you are traumatized by the loss of something you love, the thought is there. Again, this is not directed at Logan or his breeder. Just one more thought to add to the pile.