Deposit given on an unborn litter, what are my rights......?

[Brigitte Cowell]

The thing is, there is no sign of the kittens and I feel if this was a reputable breeder that she would understand that this has not worked out and let us source a kitten elsewhere. This is a lot of money and after having spoken to the relevant authorities it seems I can take her to the small claims court, which I will.

I just don't think that taking deposits on an unborn litter is something a responsible breeder does. It's a big red flag for me. And especially without a contract! Handing over a lot of money without a contract just is not a good idea :-(

I am glad you are looking into small claims court... I also think it most likely that if you file there you might have a fast resolution as the breeder may then understand how serious you are about pursuing this. Good luck!

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Jo from Sonnenblume Savannahs travels with her kittens and cats to shows all the time...she is someone I would definitely buy from...she will probably hop on here later. And Laura is someone I have known for quite a while now as well as Jacky!

Siblings would be good, but you don't have to get siblings...and most generations can be trained to ride in the car...as long as you are consistent and do it all the time...they will get used to it!

Yes, Jo from Sonnenblume SVs is very active in the breed and has produced an outstanding Savannah in her Buttercup she is showing presently. I've had a bit of internet conversations with her and think she would be a good choice of breeder!

 

[flyswatter]

HI - thanks for the advice. I have just got another email from them basically saying that i'm not getting a refund and its a bit harsh but its the nature of the business and its how all breeders work.

What a crock!

So, i replied that what she said is NOT acceptable or true and that i will take her to the small claims court, report her to TICA , contact the police under Section 2 of the Fraud Act (as advised by Jo at Sonnenblume) and that anytime anyone does a google search her name will come up as a scammer.

The ball is in her court but i will not lose 2k!

 

[frances]

HI - thanks for the advice. I have just got another email from them basically saying that i'm not getting a refund and its a bit harsh but its the nature of the business and its how all breeders work.

What a crock!

So, i replied that what she said is NOT acceptable or true and that i will take her to the small claims court, report her to TICA , contact the police under Section 2 of the Fraud Act (as advised by Jo at Sonnenblume) and that anytime anyone does a google search her name will come up as a scammer.

The ball is in her court but i will not lose 2k!

Yes , you must pursue !
Savannah cats deserve much better than that ! And we do too!
They are much nicer breeders in the UK than that one!

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

HI - thanks for the advice. I have just got another email from them basically saying that i'm not getting a refund and its a bit harsh but its the nature of the business and its how all breeders work.

What a crock!

So, i replied that what she said is NOT acceptable or true and that i will take her to the small claims court, report her to TICA , contact the police under Section 2 of the Fraud Act (as advised by Jo at Sonnenblume) and that anytime anyone does a google search her name will come up as a scammer.

The ball is in her court but i will not lose 2k!

Do take her to small claims court, or contact the police... reporting to TICA they will ask if you have a contract... and you don't hence there is not anything they can do for you :-(

 

[Sonnenblume]

Hope you get some resolution to this flyswatter.

You have put the ball in their court. The only thing I would do, is put it in writing and time-bound it (use an e-mail and a hard copy using recorded delivery), so if you do have to proceed with it legally, you can show that you have given them every opportunity to put this right and you have a written record of events.

This isn't how people should be treated and I find it disgusting. Feel free to contact me if you need any help.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Good suggestions of the letter with confirmed delivery and to give a deadline for a response before you take additional steps. Hopefully this will let the breeder know that you are not going to let this matter lie...and get you resolution.

 

[Pam Flachs]

So sorry to hear you are experiencing this! I hope you get resolution soon.

 

[Patti]

HI - thanks for the advice. I have just got another email from them basically saying that i'm not getting a refund and its a bit harsh but its the nature of the business and its how all breeders work.

What a crock!

So, i replied that what she said is NOT acceptable or true and that i will take her to the small claims court, report her to TICA , contact the police under Section 2 of the Fraud Act (as advised by Jo at Sonnenblume) and that anytime anyone does a google search her name will come up as a scammer.

The ball is in her court but i will not lose 2k!

Good for you! Although it is not unheard of for breeders to take deposits on unborn kittens, it should always be accompanied by a signed contract. Most times a full refund is not part of the contract, but there should be allowances for if something happens to the kitten, such as first pick of the next litter, etc. Apparently these breeders have no concept of good will.

I am sorry this has happened to you, but I hope you will find resolution in small claims court.

 

[The Kasbah]

Most Breeders do sell kittens with nonrefundable deposits, so that part of things to me, is standard and customary. I, myself have purchased in this manner countless times over my 11-year involvement with the Breed. When someone elects to purchase from me, I believe it is because they have shopped around and have decided that they want a kitten from MY lines as opposed to those from another cattery. Our contract DOES clearly spell out the fact that all deposits are NONREFUNDABLE, however...so this is something that is disclosed up front and our clients have the option to move forward with us (or not) based on their agreement to the terms of our purchase agreement.

In the case you have described, a few things bother me. First, is the fact that you have no contract spelling out the terms of your agreement, which to my mind is unprofessional at minimum. Secondly, it is always dicey to purchase a kitten from a litter that has yet to be born. Presumably, you made the decision to speak for a kitten from a specific pairing based on your strong favor for other babies born of the same pairing. If this is not what motivated you, I have difficulty understanding why you would offer deposit on a kitten sight unseen. There ARE many folks who DO place deposits on kittens from a specific pairing...so this process, in and of itself, is not unethical, provided all parties to the transaction are clear on the terms of the arrangement, which in your situation does not appear to be the case and is therefore problematic.

In absence of a purchase agreement/sales contract, is there information disclosed on the Breeders website outlining the terms of sale or stating that deposits are nonrefundable?

I am not familiar with laws in the UK, so cannot assist with specific information regarding challenging the terms of your purchase, but if the information was disclosed and you moved forward with your purchase, you are likely bound to the agreement and the promise to await a pending birth.

If it makes you feel any better, I waited nearly TWO YEARS for the birth of my first two Savannah house pets some 10-years ago. Litters were reabsorbed, kittens were stillborn and others were compromised in some fashion....until finally both of my boys were born, lived and eventually came home to me.

Based on what you have shared, I think you are going to have to be patient. Breeding is not an exact science and things happen that are not within a Breeder's control. It is unfortunate that personal circumstances have changed in your world, but it is not a realistic expectation to assume that changing your mind for whatever reason entitles you to change the terms of your purchase or a refund in full.

All best,