FIP

[AbbyP]

I think I (mostly) understand the pathology of FIP. Nala clearly had the coronavirus and due to a mutation, developed FIP. Research suggests that the cat needs a depressed immune system (due to stress, illness, disease, etc.) to allow the coronavirus the environment to mutate into FIP. Providing the environment soes not mean it will happen, but the mutation will not occur without a depressed immune system. This is where I am not sure of the connection. The breeder, and her vet, believe that the use of a modified live virus causes the immune system of a high percentage savannah to "become overwhelmed", thus, making the cat more susceptable to an FIP mutation if they already carry the coronavirus. I am not sure that is a fair causal relationship or not. We have sent Nala down to Columbia, SC for a necropsy. We will hopefully have more information on exactly what was ailing her.

 

[AbbyP]

I guess a better question would be: why do almost all of the key breeders warn against the use of modified live virus vaccines?

 

[admin]

I guess a better question would be: why do almost all of the key breeders warn against the use of modified live virus vaccines?

I don't know that is a fair statement...what is a "key" breeder? my kittens get ML and I have never had an issue...many other breeders use ML...

If your statement, "modified live virus causes the immune system of a high percentage savannah to "become overwhelmed", thus, making the cat more susceptable to an FIP mutation if they already carry the coronavirus." were true, there would be a lot more savannahs with FIP...the fact is that no one yet really knows the cause...there are just theories and hypotheses...

 

[AbbyP]

Wait a minute Paige, this warning for killed virus only vaccines is pervasive in the savannah community. It is either a wive's tale, or there is something to it. The genesis likely comes from the exotic cat arena. I can find no Serval breeder who recommends anything other than killed virus. The call-outs are similar to these examples below:

Written In conjunction with Sally Comstock of Hilltop Cattery, Pennsylvania

Author: Sally Comstock, Clarice Brough CCS "Serval cats require the same vaccinations that domestic cats do. Make sure your veterinarian uses ONLY vaccines made from killed viruses. Exotic cats may become sick and die if live vaccines are used. This is very important"

Southern Savannah Sanctuary for Serval Cats: "Serval cats require... ONLY vaccines made from killed viruses, live viruses can kill them."

This same language has been adopted by many of the savannah breeders who breed early generation (f1-f3) savannahs and who show up on the first three pages of a Google search - meaning, they have the majority of web traffic through their sites. I would call those "key breeders". These breeders include language like this from The Kasbah, Ltd: "It is important to note that Savannah cats MUST ONLY receive KILLED VIRUS vaccines and under no circumstances should be administered anything classified as MODIFIED LIVE". Additional breeders with the same warning include BeSpotted, Spotlight Savannahs, MD Savannah Cats, Belle Hollow, Ken's Exotics, Rocky Mountain Savannah Cats, Southern Pride Savannahs, Cahaba Cats, and many others. Nala's breeder made this a contractual requirement.

 

[WitchyWoman]

Misinformation carries like the wind and has great capacity to reproduce itself. The genesis of the killed vs modified live conundrum could be that somewhere at sometime a cat, exotic or domestic, came down with FIP shortly after a vaccination and no one could prove whether or not the relationship was causal or just bad luck. Same thing happened with vaccinations for children allegedly causing autism a few years ago that was subsequently debunked.

Some people believe over vaccinating (by over vaccinating, I mean the usual standard of care recommended by most vets) depresses the immune system and makes cats vulnerable to a plethora of diseases. Perhaps we are hunting the wrong witch altogether.

 

[admin]

Wait a minute Paige, this warning for killed virus only vaccines is pervasive in the savannah community. It is either a wive's tale, or there is something to it. The genesis likely comes from the exotic cat arena. I can find no Serval breeder who recommends anything other than killed virus. The call-outs are similar to these examples below:

Written In conjunction with Sally Comstock of Hilltop Cattery, Pennsylvania

Author: Sally Comstock, Clarice Brough CCS "Serval cats require the same vaccinations that domestic cats do. Make sure your veterinarian uses ONLY vaccines made from killed viruses. Exotic cats may become sick and die if live vaccines are used. This is very important"

Southern Savannah Sanctuary for Serval Cats: "Serval cats require... ONLY vaccines made from killed viruses, live viruses can kill them."

This same language has been adopted by many of the savannah breeders who breed early generation (f1-f3) savannahs and who show up on the first three pages of a Google search - meaning, they have the majority of web traffic through their sites. I would call those "key breeders". These breeders include language like this from The Kasbah, Ltd: "It is important to note that Savannah cats MUST ONLY receive KILLED VIRUS vaccines and under no circumstances should be administered anything classified as MODIFIED LIVE". Additional breeders with the same warning include BeSpotted, Spotlight Savannahs, MD Savannah Cats, Belle Hollow, Ken's Exotics, Rocky Mountain Savannah Cats, Southern Pride Savannahs, Cahaba Cats, and many others. Nala's breeder made this a contractual requirement.

Please remember savannahs are not exotic cats and the more we insist they are, the more stringent the laws will become and eventually none of us will be allowed to own one.

I completely agree with Deborah on this and know many, many breeders who use Modified Live vaccines and have never had an issue.

 

[Patti]

Although there has been some anecdotal evidence that modified live vaccines may cause exotics such as the Serval to actually 'catch' the disease rather than be protected from it, I have never heard or seen any research that supports this theory. Because of the anecdotal evidence, I only give killed virus vaccines to my F1s and F2s, but have had later generations receive modified live vaccines without incident.

I have NEVER heard of ANY incidence where modified live vaccine has caused FIP, unless it was the actual vaccine used against FIP.

 

[AbbyP]

Necropsy confirmed FIP. The manufacturer of the modified live vaccine did not support the vet's assertion that the two events are unrelated. So now the vet is looking into an insurance claim. Perhaps the evidence is anecdotal, but where there is smoke there is typically fire...

 

[Lori Greer]

As Patti noted, there were some concerns using modified live with Servals and early generations. This concern has carried along through the years and down the generation chain as well. You are correct that it is prevalent within the Savannah community but I think based on some assumption. Since there is such a diverse range of generations, it can be difficult to draw the line when modified live may or may not cause a problem, so the advise to use killed has prevailed regardless of it's validity. While Savannahs are not exotics, I do understand that owners of the early gens would prefer to continue vet treatment as if they were, since they are so close to the species cat. But keep in mind that there are instances of bad reactions to vaccines with certain individuals of any generation or breed. I had an F4 kitten limping for days after he received his shots and at F4 I would not normally be concerned about the type of vaccine given.

The idea that vaccine load may stress a cat's system and thereby make them more susceptible or somehow trigger mutation of the corona virus is an interesting theory and at this point I don't think we can discount anything until much more is known. The disease is heart breaking to go through on a personal level and something I would never wish on my worst enemy. I'm so very sorry. :-(