HCM in Cats

[Sunny]

Thanks much.

 

[Sue Armstrong]

My life has been so busy lately that sadly I don't get much time to get on this forum but since I am up at 4 in the morning to bottle feed kittens and could not go back to sleep I came on. I am really saddened reading this thread. I am very sorry for both of your losses of kittens and at such young ages. Surely any breeder would want to know the cause of their kittens demise to rule out poisoning or anything that would not be genetic or hereditary, but sounds as if both of your kittens had some kind of issues that would certainly warrant replacements. Very sad to hear that the one breeder refuses to even answer your calls, and to the other that your breeder is being such a stickler that it cannot be HCM and sounds as if they are doing everything in their power to not have to replace your kitten. At such a young age of 6 months there is certainly something very wrong. You both sound like very responsible kitten owners and have done everything possible as far as having tests run etc. to try to find out the exact cause. I do hope that you both get replacement kittens. Obviously, you did not want to lose the kittens that you have or had but I believe it is only ethical to get a replacement. I don't understand breeders that do not stand by their own contracts and fight to the bitter end to not replace. I put myself on the other side as if I am the buyer and try to realize that people spend their hard earned money on our Savannah babies and expect them to live a good long life. I also understand that bad things can happen but I still try to make things right. I had a buyer contact me 1 year ago to let me know that a kitten she had gotten from me had come up with diabetes. He was 3 years old when this happened. She said she was having to give him shots but that he was doing well and she was managing it with no issues. She just wanted me to know. I have bred cats for close to 30 years now and have never had a cat with diabetes. That does not mean it cannot happen! She recently contacted me to let me know that he had passed away due to complications and she poured her heart out to me in her email. She dearly loved this boy and just wanted me to know. He was now 4 years of age. I immediately responded, heartbroken for her, and told her that she was welcome at any time when she felt ready to pick out another kitten. She is going to take a new baby from me and we both could not be happier! I wish your breeders would take heart and do the same. It is the right thing to do. I wish you both the best of luck and am sorry for the loss of your kittens.

 

[l.i.t]

In my (human) experience an ASD does not develop into HCM so I'm not sure why the cardiologist would want yearly scans, unless there is something else in Lotto's history that would make him suspect HCM. I assume the ASD was discovered as a kitten? It is possible for it to get smaller as he grows but if Lotto is now an adult its size has probably stabilized and will not change. The vast majority of ASDs (again in humans) are completely asymptomatic and are only detected on a routine echo (heart ultrasound) that was ordered for another reason.

Thanks for the clarification Patti.

Yes, the ASD was detected as a kitten, before we purchased Lotto. His breeder was very upfront about the issue, and gave us a discounted price - with a guarantee that if after a repeat echo at 9mo, if the ASD was believed to shorten his lifespan, then we would get a refund, or could give him back. Of course, we decided long before that we would not ask for a refund or give him back simply because everything was disclosed up front, and we knew what we were getting into. Plus, he was a part of our family, and we wanted to keep it that way, heart condition or not ;-)

I, personally, kind of thought the Cardiologist wanting to do yearly HCM scans was a bit suspect. In fact, his entire exam was somewhat confounding to me - and I work in the medical field. But that is another story - and the bottom line was that they couldn't even detect the ASD, much less any other anomalies. So continually putting him through the trauma of a 2.5hr drive, then a 2 hr testing period, then another 2.5hr drive home....well, I'd rather avoid it unless there is some validity to scanning him, detecting it early, and being able to do something significant about it. Otherwise, I'd rather keep him with his regular vet and just make him comfortable if anything does happen. He's a wonderful little guy (perfect amount of mischief, playfulness, and loving) and I don't like putting my pets through horrible experiences for no real reason.

But I'm so thankful for SCC so that we can sound out all these issues and get opinions. I'm hoping for the best resolution for those who had their loved ones pass away from this condition. We lost a pet to old age last year, and still I cry over him. Noone can replace them.

L

 

[Patti]

I'm with you L, why put a cat through significant trauma and stress if it isn't going to change therapy or improve his outcome? You are already giving him the best medicine he could receive - your unconditional love and a wonderful home, he is a very lucky kitty

 

[l.i.t]

Ha ha! I think it's the other way around....I am a very lucky human

 

[Trish Allearz]

Not to belabor the topic... But If a scan did detect HCM, what, if anything, can be done other than palliative measures?

Lotto has a .6mm ASD that causes a small murmur. Aside from the murmur, he is otherwise unaffected by it - and .6mm is quite small. Nobody (vet, cardiologist, Lotto) seems worried about the asd. But the cardiologist wants us to bring Lotto back every year to scan for HCM Even though his ultrasound was normal. The problem with this is, we have to travel with him 2.5hrs to and from Vegas (which he does NOT care for at all) for the ultrasound each year - plus, while he loves our local vet, he was somewhat traumatized by the cardiologist visit and it affected his social interaction with other humans. Basically, he used to be very social, and after the visit and ultrasound, he now growls at and runs to hide from new humans.

I'm just skeptical, I suppose... At $800 a pop every year, it seems like an easy way for the cardiologist to make some $$ - and at incredible stress for poor Lotto. That being said, if there was something we could do, it would be worth it.

We knew about his ASD when we got him - everything was above board, and we knew we wanted to love him and give him a family no matter what. And I couldn't have ever hoped for a more wonderful little boy. We just want to do what is right for Lotto -and clearly, I don't trust the cardiologist.

As far as I know, he has only serval and domestic on his mother's side. Not 100% sure about dad.

L

Did anyone actually answer the question about what can be done about a cat with HCM?

Here's the bottom line about HCM- if you scan and catch HCM before symptoms develop, you can put your cat on meds and they can live a decent life for quite some time. For example, my Mom's girl had severe HCM- she's been on heart meds for 6 months and at her latest scan, her heart is functioning much better.

If you don't scan and HCM develops- bam, dead cat.

Now, that sounds super scary- and it is super scary- but Savannahs are not KNOWN for HCM at this point in time. It is- however- one reason I push for people to open lines of discourse with their breeders particularly when breeds known for HCM are very current in the pedigree (Bengals/Maine Coons for the most part). Information is power.

 

[Trish Allearz]

So YES- there is a HUGE reason why you'd want to detect HCM early. By the time YOU notice an issue, your cat is either dead on the floor or has thrown a clot and has hind leg paralysis and will need to be put to sleep.

I don't know about the kitten's issue up above, but wanted to make it very clear- there is VALID reasoning behind wanting to know if a cat has HCM early on. Meds DO WORK.

 

[admin]

And this is why I screen Zuri, who is my only breeding female right now...I know that HCM is not a real problem in savannahs, but I just want to be conscientious it is expensive however...

 

[Trish Allearz]

And this is why I screen Zuri, who is my only breeding female right now...I know that HCM is not a real problem in savannahs, but I just want to be conscientious it is expensive however...

It can be much more price... errr. affordable (LOL) if you can find a clinic hosted by the cat clubs in your area.

 

[admin]

It can be much more price... errr. affordable (LOL) if you can find a clinic hosted by the cat clubs in your area.

Yes, that is true...but...so far I have not found any clubs in the area to do an HCM clinic