I have my savannah for almost 8 years and have never had a problem not one I have had him since he was 4 months old. Until a week ago when he started sneezing way to much, and then he was gasping for air. I took him to my vet and they gave me 2 antibiotics, one for his eyes and nose that I put 2 drops in 2 times a day and the other is oral that he swallows. He has an upper respiratory infection. So far it seems to be working. I can not imagine him getting sicker and dying. I am sorry for the loss of your baby.
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HCM in Cats
- Thread starter Trish Allearz
- Start date
I don't have a lot of faith in the NT-proBNP, I just don't think it is as accurate as a BNP, and there are so many other things can elevate it. In addition, in my experience you simply can't diagnose CHF on a NT-proBNP. I can't tell you how many ridiculous consults I've gotten because of an elevated level when the patient was otherwise just fine.
I know you know the symptoms of CHF, of course it's harder to tell on a cat then on a human because you don't see the fluid retention or the JVD. However you can listen to the lungs, and listen for increased murmur from fluid overload. I use a neonatal stethescope to listen to my cats and kittens.
I do agree that he needs to go on medication as soon as possible. Best to treat now, rather than wait until he is in florid CHF - then you're trying to play catch up. I'm not up to speed on the survival data, but I do believe that on the proper medication your baby will have a better quality of life.
I hope your baby starts feeling better soon!!!
Thank you, I have a question, for you . The antibiotics seem to be working a little, but he cant smell his food and he wont eat it unless he can smell it. I put some chopped up turkey in his mouth and once he tasted it he then began to eat a little bit. What he really likes is wheat grass. But he is not eating very good. any suggestions?
My vet suggests using neosynephrine nasal spray in one nostril...alternating nostrils each day. By clearing the nostril they can smell the food to eat it. You can also try putting him in the bathroom and steaming it up either using a humidifier (better in the smaller room) or by running the shower (although living in a state facing a drought that is not a preferable option here!)... sometimes the steam will work enough to get them eating...
Camelottaspots
Savannah Adult
I agree with you, Patty. Everything I have read has indicated that you cannott diagnose CHF on a NT-proBNP. I have not been online and this is the first I am reading of this thread. So, I would like to say the following:
First, let me say that Michaela has been posting about a kitten she purchased from us, last year. Michaela has been offered a replacement, but to date, has not taken us up on this offer. Specifically she has been told she can return Romeo and receive a replacement as soon as our litters start arriving, and we will take care of Romeo for his lifetime OR she can keep him and care for him and at such time as he passes away , she can receive a replacement kitten at that time. Michaela has not taken us up on either offer.
We absolutely do stand behind our kittens, so I would like to dispell any rumors to the contrary. But, in 19 years of breeding, we have only had to replace two. Romeo would be the third. That being said, I do not know if breeders understand that HCM is not always hereditary and that there are idiopathic causes for this condition. Not all of the causes are known at this time, but it is believed that stress can play a major role. What Michaela did not mention was that in spite of our advice that she should have her vet use Gas ONLY during any kind of surgery, and that the ONLY pain killer we recommend for Savannahs is Torbutrol, Michaela’s vet sent Romeo home with Morphine as pain control for a simple neuter. In our experience with an average of 200 cats in our shelter on any given day, and with the spay and neuter of probably more than 1000 cats over the past ten years, we have NEVER used ANY pain killer for a simple neuter procedure. Only two other owners have ever ignored our advice on this matter. Unfortunately, one kitten was given a cocktail of ace promazine and morphine and woke up from his neuter 100% blind. The other cat was given a drug that is in the same family as Ketamine, went into a coma, and died two weeks later after being on life support. Michaela told me that Romeo developed an intermittent heart murmur AFTER his neuter surgery and after the administration of morphine. He was apparently “gone for two days” after his neuter, which is when I asked if the vet had given him any kind of pain killer and was informed about the use of morphine, which I suggested Michaela immediately stop giving him. One week later, Romeo “was sick and was taken back to the vet and antibiotics and steroids were prescribed". Before his neuter, Romeo was "superb”, with the exception that he “had to be on an all meat diet or he would get diarrhea”. (Words in quotation marls are Michaela's words to me in various emails.) That is not a surprise, of course, since Romeo was raised on a raw meat diet and not all kibble diets are agreeable to individual cats. Now, I am sure most people will agree that any kind of surgery equates with stress in any animal, but cats tend to be extremely susceptible to changes in environment, and the fact that Romeo was “superb” and 100% healthy for the first eight months of his life, and then suddenly became sick within one week of being neutered and receiving morphine, certainly suggests that this cat was, indeed, stressed. So, it is not inconceivable, to me, that stress has placed a role in the development of HCM.
Realize, that I am not “blaming” the HCM on these events, but it is sort of suspicious in my mind, especially since neither of Romeo’s parents have any symptoms of HCM whatsoever. Lady Merryn, with whom everyone is very familiar, turned eleven years of age last September. Merryn is extremely healthy. In fact, she has never been sick one single day in her entire life. She has never even had and an upper respiratory, which most cats get at least once in their lifetime. Romeo’s sire, is a four year old stud who also has never been sick in his (albeit shorter) lifetime. I should also mention, at this point that Michaela’s statement that Romeo’s “sire has mysteriously disappeared off of our website” is absolutely incorrect. His sire has NEVER been on our website for the simple reason that I have never been able to get any decent pictures of him and will not place “garbage” pictures on our website. The Gold Prince, however, is very much alive and well. We WILL get this stud tested, however, because he is considerably younger than Merryn and many cats do not develop HCM until they are 4-6 years of age. So, Gold Prince is within the age bracket where it is not inconceivable that he could be effected without us knowing anything is wrong. It is doubtful, however, that Merryn has the condition as I have not heard of a single case of HCM in a cat where the cat was asymptomatic for twelve years with absolutely no signs of illness of any kind in those twelve years.
Secondly let me say that I never once said that “this is no big deal” as Michaela has suggested. Rather, I asked the question that if he was asymptomatic, what was it that prompted Michaela to take him to the vet in the first place? How that statement was translated into “the breeder said it was no big deal” is beyond me. In Michaela’s defense, I do not think that English is Michaela’s first language.
Lastly, I have been dealing with the onset of Meniere’s disease, wherein I have been having severe and debilitating vertigo that comes and goes at unpredictable intervals. In fact, it comes and goes with absolutely no warning whatsoever. Needless to say, I have been spending a lot of time in doctors’ offices. In addition, one of our Savannahs came down with a severe upper respiratory and I was up day and night attending to her needs. And finally, just this week, one of our other Savannah females ruptured her uterus due to an undetected closed pyo that she hid very well until the last minute, when it became evident that she was ADR (ain’t doing right) and we rushed her to the vet. (The ONLY sign that something was wrong was that she had several piles of poop in her pen, which is very unusual for her. Thank God Chris was on his toes and noticed that something was off. The vet says it is not uncommon, with a closed pyo, to have no signs until the uterus actually ruptures and that if we had not gotten her into surgery, she would not have lived another 24 hours.) She underwent emergency surgery and the surgery was successful (although long), but she is still not eating well. Hence, we are worried that although the surgery was a success, the patient could still die. So, I think there is no doubt that I have had my hands full. (And all of this was right on the heels of my husband coming down with Shingles, which he, thankfully, is finally starting to recover from). So, I apologize to Michaela if I have not been 100% attentive to her needs. If I was a cat, I would probably have HCM, myself, from all of the stress I have been under for the past three months.
First, let me say that Michaela has been posting about a kitten she purchased from us, last year. Michaela has been offered a replacement, but to date, has not taken us up on this offer. Specifically she has been told she can return Romeo and receive a replacement as soon as our litters start arriving, and we will take care of Romeo for his lifetime OR she can keep him and care for him and at such time as he passes away , she can receive a replacement kitten at that time. Michaela has not taken us up on either offer.
We absolutely do stand behind our kittens, so I would like to dispell any rumors to the contrary. But, in 19 years of breeding, we have only had to replace two. Romeo would be the third. That being said, I do not know if breeders understand that HCM is not always hereditary and that there are idiopathic causes for this condition. Not all of the causes are known at this time, but it is believed that stress can play a major role. What Michaela did not mention was that in spite of our advice that she should have her vet use Gas ONLY during any kind of surgery, and that the ONLY pain killer we recommend for Savannahs is Torbutrol, Michaela’s vet sent Romeo home with Morphine as pain control for a simple neuter. In our experience with an average of 200 cats in our shelter on any given day, and with the spay and neuter of probably more than 1000 cats over the past ten years, we have NEVER used ANY pain killer for a simple neuter procedure. Only two other owners have ever ignored our advice on this matter. Unfortunately, one kitten was given a cocktail of ace promazine and morphine and woke up from his neuter 100% blind. The other cat was given a drug that is in the same family as Ketamine, went into a coma, and died two weeks later after being on life support. Michaela told me that Romeo developed an intermittent heart murmur AFTER his neuter surgery and after the administration of morphine. He was apparently “gone for two days” after his neuter, which is when I asked if the vet had given him any kind of pain killer and was informed about the use of morphine, which I suggested Michaela immediately stop giving him. One week later, Romeo “was sick and was taken back to the vet and antibiotics and steroids were prescribed". Before his neuter, Romeo was "superb”, with the exception that he “had to be on an all meat diet or he would get diarrhea”. (Words in quotation marls are Michaela's words to me in various emails.) That is not a surprise, of course, since Romeo was raised on a raw meat diet and not all kibble diets are agreeable to individual cats. Now, I am sure most people will agree that any kind of surgery equates with stress in any animal, but cats tend to be extremely susceptible to changes in environment, and the fact that Romeo was “superb” and 100% healthy for the first eight months of his life, and then suddenly became sick within one week of being neutered and receiving morphine, certainly suggests that this cat was, indeed, stressed. So, it is not inconceivable, to me, that stress has placed a role in the development of HCM.
Realize, that I am not “blaming” the HCM on these events, but it is sort of suspicious in my mind, especially since neither of Romeo’s parents have any symptoms of HCM whatsoever. Lady Merryn, with whom everyone is very familiar, turned eleven years of age last September. Merryn is extremely healthy. In fact, she has never been sick one single day in her entire life. She has never even had and an upper respiratory, which most cats get at least once in their lifetime. Romeo’s sire, is a four year old stud who also has never been sick in his (albeit shorter) lifetime. I should also mention, at this point that Michaela’s statement that Romeo’s “sire has mysteriously disappeared off of our website” is absolutely incorrect. His sire has NEVER been on our website for the simple reason that I have never been able to get any decent pictures of him and will not place “garbage” pictures on our website. The Gold Prince, however, is very much alive and well. We WILL get this stud tested, however, because he is considerably younger than Merryn and many cats do not develop HCM until they are 4-6 years of age. So, Gold Prince is within the age bracket where it is not inconceivable that he could be effected without us knowing anything is wrong. It is doubtful, however, that Merryn has the condition as I have not heard of a single case of HCM in a cat where the cat was asymptomatic for twelve years with absolutely no signs of illness of any kind in those twelve years.
Secondly let me say that I never once said that “this is no big deal” as Michaela has suggested. Rather, I asked the question that if he was asymptomatic, what was it that prompted Michaela to take him to the vet in the first place? How that statement was translated into “the breeder said it was no big deal” is beyond me. In Michaela’s defense, I do not think that English is Michaela’s first language.
Lastly, I have been dealing with the onset of Meniere’s disease, wherein I have been having severe and debilitating vertigo that comes and goes at unpredictable intervals. In fact, it comes and goes with absolutely no warning whatsoever. Needless to say, I have been spending a lot of time in doctors’ offices. In addition, one of our Savannahs came down with a severe upper respiratory and I was up day and night attending to her needs. And finally, just this week, one of our other Savannah females ruptured her uterus due to an undetected closed pyo that she hid very well until the last minute, when it became evident that she was ADR (ain’t doing right) and we rushed her to the vet. (The ONLY sign that something was wrong was that she had several piles of poop in her pen, which is very unusual for her. Thank God Chris was on his toes and noticed that something was off. The vet says it is not uncommon, with a closed pyo, to have no signs until the uterus actually ruptures and that if we had not gotten her into surgery, she would not have lived another 24 hours.) She underwent emergency surgery and the surgery was successful (although long), but she is still not eating well. Hence, we are worried that although the surgery was a success, the patient could still die. So, I think there is no doubt that I have had my hands full. (And all of this was right on the heels of my husband coming down with Shingles, which he, thankfully, is finally starting to recover from). So, I apologize to Michaela if I have not been 100% attentive to her needs. If I was a cat, I would probably have HCM, myself, from all of the stress I have been under for the past three months.
Michaela
Savannah Super Cat
So, I apologize to Michaela if I have not been 100% attentive to her needs. If I was a cat, I would probably have HCM, myself, from all of the stress I have been under for the past three months.[/quote]
Thank you for offering to replace Romeo but I can not give him up ever. I don't ever return or replace a cat or my children.
Appreciate the support as well as medical input from the forum and yours but I have to go with the advice of my vet cardiologist.
There are 4 vet cardiologist in AZ now . Compared to. 2006 when my HCM cat had saddle embolism.
Drugs or anesthesia does not cause HCM or change outcome in cats and they don't do ablation and pacemakers in cats with HCM like in humans. If stress caused HCM I would have had sudden death by now.
However I do treat people for medical heart failure and do use the pro BNP marker for prognosis and active fluid overload and active CHF. Apparently it works in vet medicine like it does in Human medicine if it is use with the clinical correlation .
The bot line is :
Many breeders are testing for HCM and it is the most responsible thing to do. If we want to enrich our lives with cats we should be aware of health and deseases. Especially the genetic ones like HCM .
Therefore I hope Romeo can change and impact the future testing of HCM is Savannah breeding and awareness all over the world.
I hope we as pet owners and breeders learn to care and test cats for their medical problems and have a better understanding.
I love it when breeders post negative echo for HCM ...because pets are not able to sleek up and tell their symptoms..... Asymptomatic until jury go I heart failure or embolism even on medicine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Michaela L
Thank you for offering to replace Romeo but I can not give him up ever. I don't ever return or replace a cat or my children.
Appreciate the support as well as medical input from the forum and yours but I have to go with the advice of my vet cardiologist.
There are 4 vet cardiologist in AZ now . Compared to. 2006 when my HCM cat had saddle embolism.
Drugs or anesthesia does not cause HCM or change outcome in cats and they don't do ablation and pacemakers in cats with HCM like in humans. If stress caused HCM I would have had sudden death by now.
However I do treat people for medical heart failure and do use the pro BNP marker for prognosis and active fluid overload and active CHF. Apparently it works in vet medicine like it does in Human medicine if it is use with the clinical correlation .
The bot line is :
Many breeders are testing for HCM and it is the most responsible thing to do. If we want to enrich our lives with cats we should be aware of health and deseases. Especially the genetic ones like HCM .
Therefore I hope Romeo can change and impact the future testing of HCM is Savannah breeding and awareness all over the world.
I hope we as pet owners and breeders learn to care and test cats for their medical problems and have a better understanding.
I love it when breeders post negative echo for HCM ...because pets are not able to sleek up and tell their symptoms..... Asymptomatic until jury go I heart failure or embolism even on medicine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Michaela L
I have never been successful in giving nasal spray to a Savannah, but I have used chlorpheniramine with some degree of success to help improve a stuffy nose.
I've done it many times over the years, but usually I do have hubby to help with this... a squiggly kitten doesn't always want something squirted up the nose.