Heart Murmur Stage 5-6

[socalirocker]

Update : She finally called out of the blue. Notified me that none of her kittens have come up with any issues. She offered me another kitten, or refund. An expression of concern for the well being of the kitten is what I was looking for. She said she doesn't know too much about the disease, and is researching it more. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Does the refund require you to return the kitten, or a gesture towards his ongoing veterinary care?

My very first SV was diagnosed with a serious heart defect, his breeder didn't want him back but gave me his purchase price towards a breeding female...so in effect replaced him without me returning him. That's not the contract but more the ethical thing that she did. There was no way I'd be returning him though... I believe he was meant for us because we were the type of folk to undertake the kind of care he needed.

With a replacement though, I would be concerned about HCM if there is an indication that this is not the first kitten from that cattery....so I would think it a risk. Maybe if she can offer an unrelated kitten...not sure how many breeding cats that breeder has to know if that is an option. I'm glad to know that you did get a reply though!

I would not agree that studs that produce HCM should be continue to be used. In fact, generally when there is a genetic health defect in a litter the advice is to neuter the stud and continue with the queens. This is because in terms of DNA, a stud will produce more kittens hence is of greater concern. Agreed that being a young cat developing HCM it is most likely more than one gene is involved :-(

As to murmurs, it is true that some can fade...but if I remember rightly your kitten had a Grade 5-6 murmur which is pretty darn strong! Mostly I think it is the 1-3 grade murmurs that tend to fade with growth.

It is true that many breeders do the vaccinations etc themselves, and in this case she might not want to admit initially that she had not had him vet checked before leaving. It's not how I do things, but then I am paranoid because of my first Savannah!

In terms of saying she is registered with TICA, her cattery might well be registered and she may be registering kittens. TICA is only a genetic registry and hence would not get involved in such a situation. If her cats are TICA registered though she can most definitely obtain 5 generation pedigrees on them.

 

[socalirocker]

She decided to let me keep the kitten, and in return she would be giving me a kitten for free. Given her reputation I am a bit reluctant to take that offer.

If kittens are being continually produced with the same issues with reckless abandon, it should be stopped. I'm not angry about having a sick kitten, I understand breeding issues can come up. She is taking care of it by replacing him. But my issue lies in breeding sick animals. Not only causing heart ache for the owners, but for the poor animals.

 

[Patti]

I understand your concern, but in looking through this thread again I was unclear if you know for certain that she has produced HCM in kittens in the past (your post from Tuesday states she denied having previous issues). I know you said she was discussed in another thread on this forum as well, but I don't know who it is you're talking about, so don't know how to find that thread based on the information you've provided about her.

It would have been much easier for you to get a refund to offset the cost of your vet bills, but of course easier for her to simply produce another kitten to give you. However, if you know for certain that she has had previously affected kittens then I would also be hesitant to take a replacement kitten, at least not unless it has been evaluated by a vet (preferably of your choice) and been cleared health-wise. Of course, as has been previously pointed out, that will not guarantee future problems in the case of HCM, but it would at least provide some reassurance of its current health.

 

[socalirocker]

Yes, there have been reports of HCM with her kittens. She told me none of her kittens have ever had issues. There's a thread on here that says otherwise.

I wasn't offered a cash refund without giving him up. I care too much about him to do that! I know I will be doing the best I can for him!

How do I start a conversation with you?

 

[Patti]

Yes, there have been reports of HCM with her kittens. She told me none of her kittens have ever had issues. There's a thread on here that says otherwise.

I wasn't offered a cash refund without giving him up. I care too much about him to do that! I know I will be doing the best I can for him!

How do I start a conversation with you?

Can you post the thread where it was discussed? I'm not sure about starting a conversation with me, but if you want to communicate privately my email is patti@jasirisana.com - however I will be heading to bed shortly (have to go to work in the morning )

 

[socalirocker]

I'm keeping it private for now, just to see what the breeder does. I had to keep hassling her to get her to acknowledge me even after the contract. You should have an email in your inbox. I'm also headed to bed, goodnight.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

It probably depends on the contract, if it only states replacement in the case of a genetic defect then it is hard to insist on a refund. If she offered the refund before, then was it verbal or in an email?

I agree, it is hard to take a replacement kitten if fully related (both mom and dad) to your current kitten... it's a risk that you will end up with two with the same disease :-( I can't remember, did your kitten have the strong heart murmur from the time you picked him up? Wondering at least if you make sure you take the replacement kitten to the specialist on pickup you could at least know THEN if he/she seems healthy....might make it a little easier to welcome another into your home. When I had my F2 replaced by the breeder, she was able to offer me a completely unrelated F2 kitten which made it easier for me....