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Liver issues, force feeding & teeth grinding
- Thread starter Moggieslegacy
- Start date
Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
Rafiki, it is nice of you to wish you could help interpret this.
It took a lot of reading, but think I have more or less managed to figure it out. (any corrections are welcome) It is sort of like doing a crossword puzzle, but the educational clinical resources online are amazing.
The extremely high bile acids suggest cholestasis, which is an obstruction in the one of the systems that remove the bile acid from the blood and recycle it properly. It sounds like this can be caused by an end stage hepatic shunt, a physical obstruction or a chemical dysfunction. In the case of a physical obstruction (like a tumor) the liver chemicals GGT and ALP are usually higher than normal. For Moggie these chemicals were high but within the normal range, which may mean it was more likely a chemical dysfunction. And FIP affecting the liver can sometimes cause high bile acids.
High bilirubin may suggest inadequate liver function and can also be caused by FIP due to the cats inability to clear out red blood cells that have broken down. As far as I can understand, his other liver & kidney function chemicals were not ideal but were within normal range.
I think very high blood protein and globulin suggests his body was fighting an infection. Low albumin in itself can be liver dysfunction, or malnutrition. The very low A/G ratio is one of the most common markers of FIP, but can also point to lymphoma and some other less likely things. I don’t think this part of his blood chemistry is normally associated with a hepatic shunt, and he also did not have other symptoms of this like drooling or changes in behavior after eating (except maybe the compulsive burying)? On the other hand, I am not sure why the vet couldn’t feel the rim of his liver when he reached under his rib cage. If he had an unusually small liver, I am not sure if that might be caused by end stage FIP, as this usually is said to cause inflammation?
The Keratic precipitates (the spots in his eyes) are probably a big clue as they are frequently associated with FIP, and (I think?) much more rarely associated with other health problems. This is caused by collections of inflammatory cells.
I feel I have enough information to be able to let it rest guessing this was FIP, or maybe a lymphoma, though I will never know for sure. The Dr interpreting his blood results may have been a bit thrown off by Moggies age. The paper work is incorrect and says Moggie was 8.5 years old when he was 8 and a 1/2 months. Cats that are 8 months old are a lot more likely to develop FIP than a cat that is 8 years.
Thanks for all the information provided here and to those who provided support. It helped...
(edited to remove what was probably incorrect information)
It took a lot of reading, but think I have more or less managed to figure it out. (any corrections are welcome) It is sort of like doing a crossword puzzle, but the educational clinical resources online are amazing.
The extremely high bile acids suggest cholestasis, which is an obstruction in the one of the systems that remove the bile acid from the blood and recycle it properly. It sounds like this can be caused by an end stage hepatic shunt, a physical obstruction or a chemical dysfunction. In the case of a physical obstruction (like a tumor) the liver chemicals GGT and ALP are usually higher than normal. For Moggie these chemicals were high but within the normal range, which may mean it was more likely a chemical dysfunction. And FIP affecting the liver can sometimes cause high bile acids.
High bilirubin may suggest inadequate liver function and can also be caused by FIP due to the cats inability to clear out red blood cells that have broken down. As far as I can understand, his other liver & kidney function chemicals were not ideal but were within normal range.
I think very high blood protein and globulin suggests his body was fighting an infection. Low albumin in itself can be liver dysfunction, or malnutrition. The very low A/G ratio is one of the most common markers of FIP, but can also point to lymphoma and some other less likely things. I don’t think this part of his blood chemistry is normally associated with a hepatic shunt, and he also did not have other symptoms of this like drooling or changes in behavior after eating (except maybe the compulsive burying)? On the other hand, I am not sure why the vet couldn’t feel the rim of his liver when he reached under his rib cage. If he had an unusually small liver, I am not sure if that might be caused by end stage FIP, as this usually is said to cause inflammation?
The Keratic precipitates (the spots in his eyes) are probably a big clue as they are frequently associated with FIP, and (I think?) much more rarely associated with other health problems. This is caused by collections of inflammatory cells.
I feel I have enough information to be able to let it rest guessing this was FIP, or maybe a lymphoma, though I will never know for sure. The Dr interpreting his blood results may have been a bit thrown off by Moggies age. The paper work is incorrect and says Moggie was 8.5 years old when he was 8 and a 1/2 months. Cats that are 8 months old are a lot more likely to develop FIP than a cat that is 8 years.
Thanks for all the information provided here and to those who provided support. It helped...
(edited to remove what was probably incorrect information)
Last edited:
Moggieslegacy
Savannah Super Cat
It has been almost 2 years since Moggie passed, and my 2 healthy living kitties have helped my heart to heal...
And I recently found a bunch podcast symposiums at the Winn Feline Foundation that helped me be more sure that the dry form of FIP was the cause... These lectures are available through the Apple podcast app. A lot of really interesting topics are featured. Some of them are talks by a leading FIP researcher Neil’s Pedersen and a Cornell researcher Beth Licitra. Listening to them I found some helpful bit of information that helped me feel more certain of Moggie’s cause of death.
As people may recall I posted some pictures showing where Moggie had something called kerratic precipitates in his eyes and also I noticed his eye’s iris colour had generally darkened.
https://www.winnfelinefoundation.or...-symposium-ending-fip-transcript.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Quoting Neil Pederson
“Now, in some cases, the FIP can also attack the eyes.” [description continues....]”and here we have another where we have these precipitates, these are called mutton-fat precipitates. These are fairly diagnostic of FIP, they’re not seen... These are aggregates of inflammatory cells, and they’re called mutton-fat precipitates because it looks like somebody’s taken a handful of mutton and thrown it up against the window”
And again... he completes this same train of thought...
https://www.vin.com/Download/WINN/Winn_FIP_talkDP.pdf
“And again, those are called keratic precipitates which are little accumulations of macrophages out there. Remember, macrophages, again, when the virus likes to grow. And this is a younger… and this is a young cat with uveitis with keratic precipitates, that's like 99% or 98%.”
Then I listened to this...
The speaker explains that Dr. Jean Holzworth was the first person to describe FIP and the speaker reads a bit of her description. Part of this is quoted below.
https://www.vin.com/AppUtil/Project...eth&schecked=DOC6372936,DOC6424016,DOC6281620
“A peculiar entity with a definite predilection for cats is chronic fibrinous peritonitis, in which fibrin deposited on the abdominal organs, especially the liver and spleen, gradually organizes into a tough, pale fibrous coating. The liver and spleen may become contracted into barely recognizable forms.”
The speaker then says “This is a really classic definition of effusive or wet FIP.”
Moggie did not have the symptoms of wet FIP, so I am not sure if this can also happen in cases of dry FIP, but it would explain why the vet could not find his liver.
Also this same speaker mentions the darker iris colour I mentioned in some of my posts.
“Dry FIP has a lot of the same nonspecific signs as wet FIP and then on top of that, some cats will present with ocular changes. The iris will get darker....”
More in the link below...
https://www.winnfelinefoundation.or...-symposium-ending-fip-transcript.pdf?sfvrsn=0
And I recently found a bunch podcast symposiums at the Winn Feline Foundation that helped me be more sure that the dry form of FIP was the cause... These lectures are available through the Apple podcast app. A lot of really interesting topics are featured. Some of them are talks by a leading FIP researcher Neil’s Pedersen and a Cornell researcher Beth Licitra. Listening to them I found some helpful bit of information that helped me feel more certain of Moggie’s cause of death.
As people may recall I posted some pictures showing where Moggie had something called kerratic precipitates in his eyes and also I noticed his eye’s iris colour had generally darkened.
https://www.winnfelinefoundation.or...-symposium-ending-fip-transcript.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Quoting Neil Pederson
“Now, in some cases, the FIP can also attack the eyes.” [description continues....]”and here we have another where we have these precipitates, these are called mutton-fat precipitates. These are fairly diagnostic of FIP, they’re not seen... These are aggregates of inflammatory cells, and they’re called mutton-fat precipitates because it looks like somebody’s taken a handful of mutton and thrown it up against the window”
And again... he completes this same train of thought...
https://www.vin.com/Download/WINN/Winn_FIP_talkDP.pdf
“And again, those are called keratic precipitates which are little accumulations of macrophages out there. Remember, macrophages, again, when the virus likes to grow. And this is a younger… and this is a young cat with uveitis with keratic precipitates, that's like 99% or 98%.”
Then I listened to this...
The speaker explains that Dr. Jean Holzworth was the first person to describe FIP and the speaker reads a bit of her description. Part of this is quoted below.
https://www.vin.com/AppUtil/Project...eth&schecked=DOC6372936,DOC6424016,DOC6281620
“A peculiar entity with a definite predilection for cats is chronic fibrinous peritonitis, in which fibrin deposited on the abdominal organs, especially the liver and spleen, gradually organizes into a tough, pale fibrous coating. The liver and spleen may become contracted into barely recognizable forms.”
The speaker then says “This is a really classic definition of effusive or wet FIP.”
Moggie did not have the symptoms of wet FIP, so I am not sure if this can also happen in cases of dry FIP, but it would explain why the vet could not find his liver.
Also this same speaker mentions the darker iris colour I mentioned in some of my posts.
“Dry FIP has a lot of the same nonspecific signs as wet FIP and then on top of that, some cats will present with ocular changes. The iris will get darker....”
More in the link below...
https://www.winnfelinefoundation.or...-symposium-ending-fip-transcript.pdf?sfvrsn=0