My F2's inexplicable urine/litter behavior

[Myles]

I use the cat attract litter, clumps very well. I put quite a bit in the 3 sterilite containers for my 2 f2s. I don't have any of the issues you are describing, so I wonder if you might give it another shot? My male pees standing up (don't ask ) and I still don't have the stuff on the side like you described. All 3 boxes are scooped a few times daily, cleaned totally every other month with all fresh litter. Obviously I top off the litter in between soapy scrub downs. am not a fan of pine. I know we all have our preferences, but I think it is a mess and my cats don't like the texture. I don't feel any differently about the pellets for my horses, either!

Incidentally, this is what I meant by the biological mess cat-attract leaves. The urine + cat attract stick together, while the pine pellets disintegrate. That is just urine, and the cat-attract that has bonded to it (no feces, despite the appearance).

(note, I know cat-attract says not to use it with pine pellets, but the directions actually say not to use it with ... anything if you read 'em, no paper, pellets, conventional litters, crystals, etc. etc. heh).

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

I may give that a go next (I want to try one thing at a time, till I find the magic mix as you might expect). How big do you usually go? I think with my "litter trough", I went straight to the hole cut in the side method. It was hard to find one with a relatively solid bottom (instead of ribbed/textured/etc.).

http://www.target.com/p/sterilite-c...storage-bin-purple/-/A-13794509#prodSlot=_1_3

That's the size I've used that works well. Just take the lid off and leave open at the top for entry. Some like to cut a hole in the lid but I've found that too claustrophobic/cramped for some of mine as they like to basically sit upright when they use the box. I've not had them tip too often though, unlike Patti, but I do put in more litter than it appears you use in the pic you posted.

I think the confusion on "Cat Attract" is that you are using the term for the herbal additive that is sold in stores and others are using it for the clay litter that is sold with the additive included in it. The Cat Attract litter not only has that additive but it is made of a super-fine sandy clay that is preferred by a lot of cats. I'm not at all keen on clay type litters but I would think it worth a try...because dealing with yukky clay litter would still be preferable to the situation you have now!

 

[WitchyWoman]

When I was having issues with one of my cats, I added a layer of Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract clay litter to the top of the regular litter and it solved the problem. You don't necessarily have to fill the pan with the Cat Attract clay litter.

 

[Patti]

I may give that a go next (I want to try one thing at a time, till I find the magic mix as you might expect). How big do you usually go? I think with my "litter trough", I went straight to the hole cut in the side method. It was hard to find one with a relatively solid bottom (instead of ribbed/textured/etc.).

I definitely agree with trying one thing at a time. By 'how big do you usally go' if you mean how big of a box I would go minimum 18 gal, but in Dante's case would consider one of the larger totes (30+gal) in case space is one of his issues. If you mean how big the entrance you can just leave the lid off, or use the lid but cut out all but a rim of 3-4 inches.

 

[Patti]

BTW, I just saw that you added an avatar - Dante is a beautiful boy!

 

[Myles]

I'll try to find a suitable bin from a local store, and probably give that a go next.

I did dump 3-4" of litter in, he dropped a log today, didn't bury it, no change in urine behavior. He's left a nice puddle in the middle of the box, then a trail to the edge, then a puddle on the mat in front of the box. Extra litter only has one effect (thus far). The box is now too heavy to lift by the lid to carry to the toilet for flushing, doh.

 

[Myles]

Hrm,

So I pulled his litter pan and replaced it earlier today, moved his litter (with the cat-attract power still present) to the new pan. It's a sizable 33"L x 20"W x 13.5"H box (see pictures), the largest I could get before the side walls were either really small, or unreasonably tall.

The pan walls are just below crotch-height for him, so he's not really able to stand inside, and pee out (though I guess he could stand in, and spray straight out). I moved over ~3" of litter, and left the top off entirely, no holes/entrances/etc. cut into it.

Either way, no dice yet. He's defecated in the pan without issue, but urinated partially in the pan, then another shot against the clear plastic from outside of it, from the same angle he'd normally "hit" his previous pan.

Short of re-attempting a clay based litter, or simply swapping litters at random (which I had done before with no luck, including the cat-attract clay based litter), I'm running low on ideas.

 

[WitchyWoman]

Myles…you've said you've spent considerable money already trying to resolve Dante's pee problem. And although you've consulted a behaviorist already, I think you should give serious consideration to giving Marilyn Krieger a crack at this. Patti mentioned her earlier in the thread. Her phone/skype consults are $190 and you have to weigh the cost of the that against future expenses dealing with this issue. Cats are her speciality and she has tons of experience dealing with some very difficult behaviors. http://thecatcoach.com/consultation-rates/

Two things I find interesting -- you've described him, with lower sided boxes or boxes with entrance holes, as starting to pee in the box then walking while peeing toward the edge of the box and finishing peeing outside the box. If that his his preferred way of peeing, a long trough-like litter box could be the answer. And you've said with the new higher sided boxes that he peed inside and peed on it from outside which sounds like marking behavior. That brings up the question of whether his neuter was complete. It's been mentioned in other threads here that even if a tiny bit of testicle was overlooked during neuter, territorial marking can occur.

In any event, he sure does present a conundrum.

 

[Patti]

I agree, if he is urinating on the side of the box from the outside (which I think is what you're describing) this sounds very much like spraying/marking behavior. I believe I mentioned before that your vet should be able to draw a testosterone level on him to see if he has any retained testicular tissue that could be producing hormones that are contributing to his behavior.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

As a quick fix regarding the spraying on the outside of the box...I think I would lay down puppy pee pads under the box extending out a bit to catch that pee...that will make cleanup just that bit easier...

I'm not sure what "unreasonably tall" was in the boxes, but I think a box that he couldn't spray over the sides is not a bad thing. He's agile enough to jump into a box.

Another thought comes from how most of our litterboxes here are positioned because of our beagle (who being a disgusting doggy loves kitty poop treats)... they are up on shelves/benches etc. If the box was up on a table with just enough room to allow him to jump up on the table and then into the litterbox, then he would not have the ability to spray from the outside. Given that he does want to GO to the litterbox to do this (he's not marking the rest of the house is he?)... then maybe something like that might work?