My F2's inexplicable urine/litter behavior

[Myles]

WitchyWoman: As noted originally, I've been dealing with a behavioral vet, it's just been a long, and expensive trip over several years now (the behavioral vet is on the new end). I'm looking for solutions to end my spend in this regard, so I appreciate the advice, but have to pass there.

Patti: Great suggestion, and that much I can go for, I wasn't aware that was an option, and will persue this.

As a quick fix regarding the spraying on the outside of the box...I think I would lay down puppy pee pads under the box extending out a bit to catch that pee...that will make cleanup just that bit easier...

I'm not sure what "unreasonably tall" was in the boxes, but I think a box that he couldn't spray over the sides is not a bad thing. He's agile enough to jump into a box.

Another thought comes from how most of our litterboxes here are positioned because of our beagle (who being a disgusting doggy loves kitty poop treats)... they are up on shelves/benches etc. If the box was up on a table with just enough room to allow him to jump up on the table and then into the litterbox, then he would not have the ability to spray from the outside. Given that he does want to GO to the litterbox to do this (he's not marking the rest of the house is he?)... then maybe something like that might work?

Well right now I have the mats I leave down on the floor in front of the box, they catch 95% of the urine 80% of the time, so it's just a matter of carrying out, and hosing down with the shower head. I have two, so I can alternate (so one can hang and dry while the other replaces it).

I had considered that furniture with the litter built in, so I know exactly what you're talking about, as the idea had floated by previously. I may find a small table and do exactly this.

Unfortunately the Valium is having its effects, he gets a little dopey now, it's sad to see, but it's better to see him dopey and chilled out, then crying at his door for hours. This may present issues with an "up high" litter arrangement, but I'll see what I can figure out, as this makes the list of good to try items.

Marking has been a problem (which is his non-litter related issue, and what prevents him from enjoying full roam of the house). He has select target spots (front/back door, back window, and being denied access, now two closet doors), where he returns regardless of scent (IE: if the area is blocked, he will find the most offending blocking item and periodically hit that instead). I'm also reasonably certain it's not scent, because regardless of how "second rate" the enzyme cleaner I'm using may be (natures miracle in this case), sealed porcelain tile doesn't exactly absorb much.

I'm starting to think that the marking is related to neglect at this point/being alone/not let out of his room [where he doesn't mark anywhere] (because every time I do, I have to watch him like a hawk, I can't do anything else really, or he'll mark right behind my back in the same room).

Right now he's test driving his walking harness, as I've had luck in the past using that as a behavioral restraint. If I can break that (even upstairs only, where he cant see anything of substance outside), I'll chuck his litter box back into the bath tub, and let him pee all he wants on the side of the tub, and go back to that, which was far preferable.

Pic related, it's him relaxing in his harness, that somehow prevents bad behavior, not entirely certain as to how.

 

[Dantes]

Pic related, it's him relaxing in his harness, that somehow prevents bad behavior, not entirely certain as to how.

He's stressed about something, and having the harness around him comforts him.
http://cats.thundershirt.co.uk/
WHY DOES THUNDERSHIRT WORK?
With its patented design, the new ThunderShirt for Cats applies gentle, constant pressure to the torso and this pressure has a dramatic calming effect for cats if they are anxious or fearful. ThunderShirt has already helped many hundreds of thousands of dogs around the world and is now helping cats as well! Cat owners and veterinarians are amazed by the positive impact a ThunderShirt can have with cats.

As for WHY ThunderShirt’s gentle pressure works to calm a dogs andcats, anxiety experts believe that pressure has a calming effect on the nervous system and may release calming hormones like endorphins or ocytocins. Using pressure to relieve anxiety has been a common practice for years. For example:

Parents use swaddling to calm an inconsolable newborn infant.
People with autism use pressure to relieve their persistent anxiety.
Children with certain behavioral problems use pressure shirts and weighted vests to relax and focus.
TTouch animal trainers use pressure to address a wide variety of anxieties.
Veterinarians use pressure to relax cattle when they are administering vaccinations.

Until ThunderShirt, there just hasn’t been a well-designed, inexpensive solution commonly used for cat anxiety.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

If all you are doing is hosing off the mats he is peeing on, then there is no surprise that he keeps peeing there.... you aren't removing the scent hence he will be attracted to pee there again. Hence the idea of the puppy pee pads because you are removing the pee scent.

I don't agree that it is okay to use Nature's Miracle and consider it equivalent to the better brands. There's a reason that AntiIckyPoo and Unique Distributors Odor Eliminator are recommended, they work better. Nothing is 100% sealed, there is grout, there is cracks...there is the scratches that build up over time. All sorts of things will harbor scent and a cat's nose is way more sensitive than ours.

Marking around doors and windows is classic cat defensiveness, I am sure there are outdoor cats that are literally pissing him off. This is a subject that comes up a lot in cats, and a few tactics that can work with that. It sounds though like the litterbox issue is the biggest challenge right now...

 

[Myles]

He's stressed about something, and having the harness around him comforts him.
http://cats.thundershirt.co.uk/
WHY DOES THUNDERSHIRT WORK?
With its patented design, the new ThunderShirt for Cats applies gentle, constant pressure to the torso and this pressure has a dramatic calming effect for cats if they are anxious or fearful. ThunderShirt has already helped many hundreds of thousands of dogs around the world and is now helping cats as well! Cat owners and veterinarians are amazed by the positive impact a ThunderShirt can have with cats.

As for WHY ThunderShirt’s gentle pressure works to calm a dogs andcats, anxiety experts believe that pressure has a calming effect on the nervous system and may release calming hormones like endorphins or ocytocins. Using pressure to relieve anxiety has been a common practice for years. For example:

Parents use swaddling to calm an inconsolable newborn infant.
People with autism use pressure to relieve their persistent anxiety.
Children with certain behavioral problems use pressure shirts and weighted vests to relax and focus.
TTouch animal trainers use pressure to address a wide variety of anxieties.
Veterinarians use pressure to relax cattle when they are administering vaccinations.

Until ThunderShirt, there just hasn’t been a well-designed, inexpensive solution commonly used for cat anxiety.

Interesting read, maybe I'll loosen up the harness for more full-time wear (right now, it's on "the escape artist" tightness level, and causes discomfort when he lays down, etc.).

Notably, this could be entirely incidental, but he urinated successfully just now with the harness on, but ran into his house like he did something wrong immediately after (making taking the harness off for the night difficult). Not sure how he'd get that idea, since he's had nothing but positive reinforcement when he goes in the pan.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Could be incidental but maybe it is the harness... maybe the thundershirt idea really could make a difference there... Definitely worth giving it more time to see!

 

[Dantes]

Notably, this could be entirely incidental, but he urinated successfully just now with the harness on, but ran into his house like he did something wrong immediately after (making taking the harness off for the night difficult). Not sure how he'd get that idea, since he's had nothing but positive reinforcement when he goes in the pan.

My Dante got that way too, it was like no matter where he peed he was kinda freaked out about something. I never punished him for peeing in the wrong place, yet he reacted almost like I did, even when he went in the right place (where I gave positive reinforcement too).

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

It's possible that although you don't punish that the cat picks up that you are upset by the behavior... they can be sensitive to our moods so might pick up n the distress you have about the peeing. I imagine it is hard NOT to give out some of that, it IS upsetting when a cat is continually peeing where they shouldn't be :-(

 

[Patti]

He's stressed about something, and having the harness around him comforts him.
http://cats.thundershirt.co.uk/
WHY DOES THUNDERSHIRT WORK?
With its patented design, the new ThunderShirt for Cats applies gentle, constant pressure to the torso and this pressure has a dramatic calming effect for cats if they are anxious or fearful. ThunderShirt has already helped many hundreds of thousands of dogs around the world and is now helping cats as well! Cat owners and veterinarians are amazed by the positive impact a ThunderShirt can have with cats.

As for WHY ThunderShirt’s gentle pressure works to calm a dogs andcats, anxiety experts believe that pressure has a calming effect on the nervous system and may release calming hormones like endorphins or ocytocins. Using pressure to relieve anxiety has been a common practice for years. For example:

Parents use swaddling to calm an inconsolable newborn infant.
People with autism use pressure to relieve their persistent anxiety.
Children with certain behavioral problems use pressure shirts and weighted vests to relax and focus.
TTouch animal trainers use pressure to address a wide variety of anxieties.
Veterinarians use pressure to relax cattle when they are administering vaccinations.

Until ThunderShirt, there just hasn’t been a well-designed, inexpensive solution commonly used for cat anxiety.

Hmmm, watching the video, it looks like a typical response to a walking jacket when it's first put on. I wonder if it has the same response long term.

 

[Dantes]

It's possible that although you don't punish that the cat picks up that you are upset by the behavior... they can be sensitive to our moods so might pick up n the distress you have about the peeing. I imagine it is hard NOT to give out some of that, it IS upsetting when a cat is continually peeing where they shouldn't be :-(

Yes, I agree. Cats are much more sensitive than we give them credit for.

 

[Myles]

Harness is on day 2, his valium is at half dose, because I realized I'm almost out of pills (poor planning, because I had weaned him off, then restarted suddenly, without paying attention to the stock in the jar).

Urinated in the proper spot again today, it takes him awhile (a solid 60 seconds or so to pee), which its always has, but beyond that, the harness is all the difference. I got some whining in the afternoon as he sat on my shoulder, obviously it's uncomfortable, but probably better then being cooped up.

I'm not home tomorrow during the day, but may harness him and give him free reign of the upstairs, pending there are no issues tonight, and see how a day alone goes.