One stressed mommy

[l.i.t]

OK... Apparently there are privacy settings which were set to private. I have now corrected that. Sorry. Hopefully the link works now - I'll also try posting a direct link to one of the videos just in case.

Guess this is what happens when you are the last generation to grow up without computers... You get a technically challenged 39y/o!

 

[l.i.t]

Well that obviously worked. I'll be obnoxious and just post the rest of them all here....

 

[l.i.t]

You may want to turn off the sound so you don't have to hear my obnoxious voice

 

[Carykd7kau]

All right. There may be a little obsessive behavior on the part of the darker one ( Bucky?) But by no means is it at all violent. And not that aggressive. My two mix it up a lot more and a lot more vocally too. Granted, after a few minutes they stop, but until they do it is much noisier
Just my opinion..

 

[l.i.t]

I completely agree it's not violent. Mostly obsessive. There is some mild aggression on Bucky's side (the fights do get noisy, but it's always under the bed where it's too dark to film) - but like I said... It seems to be the cumulative part that is stressing the other cats - for instance, when they are all together, the light switch mode happens anywhere from 2-8 times a day. Multiply that by 2 months, and it gets tiresome. Also, the trend is that it was not getting better. *IF* Lotto would just give him a good lesson, it might get better... But he won't. Tootie just doesn't really have a chance.

 

[l.i.t]

And, yes, the dark one is Bucky.

If things honestly don't look worrisome, then I definitely need to know. Marilyn has put the fear of God in us saying 'do NOT let them engage with each other'.

Mostly, what concerns us is:
- the obsessiveness (Bucky is fixated on big brother)
- the persistence (so many times per day)
- Lotto becoming reclusive, hiding, despondent
- the lack of improvement in Bucky's interactions with the cats (rather, it has gotten worse - less play, more aggression)

If this happened once every other day, and they had some good interactions in between, then it would likely be OK.

And before Marilyn was involved, I thought the video called "bad boys" was 'good' play - because it was one of the few where the cats came up for air! But she and the breeder said it was territorial behavior on Bucky's part.

 

[Rafiki]

OK, that was not what I expected. I agree that the play is not violent. It seems to me that Bucky just really, really wants to play and that his choice for a playmate is Lotto. Unfortunately Lotto is only interested in playing with Bucky a fraction of that time. There is definitely some posturing going on and Bucky is trying to claim what Lotto has but even that was not overly aggressive. Of course Lotto was still able to evade Bucky so it did not escalate.

 

[l.i.t]

Well, this is interesting.

My initial feelings were that Bucky wanted to mostly play, but that it would usually escalate into painful play for Lotto (hard biting around the neck area and on the head, scratching with claws, bunny kicking, etc)....and that Lotto didn't like the aggressive play, but Bucky would not take 'no' for an answer and kept on doing it even if Lotto acquiesced. And somewhere in there, it felt like Bucky just didn't know how to play any other way - that his feelings were not necessarily malicious. It was really the persistence, frequency, and inability for Lotto/Tootie to escape to a 'safe' place (since Bucky can go anywhere they do) - and this would occur day and night if they were together, or just all day when we separated them at night. It would usually end in Lotto 'yeowling' in distress. Like I said earlier - he is a drama queen....but it's still hard to hear the distress signal in one of your cats.

But then Marilyn and the breeder said it was not 'good' play. The breeder specifically said it looks like two cats who are not doing well together (based on the 'bad boys' video). And Marilyn said things were BAD.

Now I'm really confused.

So......IF this is normal.....then what do we do next? When they were all together, Lotto and Tootie would pretty much try to hide all the time, and were starting to fear Bucky's presence. Lotto was getting really depressed - lethargic, not responding to play, affection, the works. Everywhere he went, Bucky had to be there, and then would start to play/fight/whatever you want to call it. The amount of peaceful play between Lotto and Bucky had decreased to almost nothing. And there appeared to be no improvement in the relationship. Just Bucky being a bit of a dictator.

So do we just put them all together, again....and let Lotto and Tootie just get stressed until they deal with it on their own? I just really don't know what to do.

 

[WitchyWoman]

That stuff goes on at my house all the time. The difference is your description of Bucky's behavior as obsessive. Therein lies the problem. My cats usually back of each other when one protests too much. A couple times a day I have to intervene when my F1 won't take "no" for an answer.

It's possible that Lotto and Bucky are too different personality-wise. That begs the question of whether Bucky would get along with another cat similar to him. Usually it works better with a dominant/territorial personality to have a companion that is less so. Lotto apparently isn't interested in or is incapable of affirming that role. However, when Bucky is not focused on Lotto and they are together, Lotto doesn't appear stressed to me. It appears to happen when Bucky doesn't respect Lotto's wish to be left alone. I wonder if Bucky is frustrated because there is no one to play with who has the same energy level as he does.

I believe you should follow Marilyn's advice and not get confused by what we think we see on the vids or what we perceive from your posts. She is the expert. You have to stand firm and commit to one course of action to its conclusion before you decide to try another. I still believe that getting Bucky (and perhaps even Lotto) on antidepressants will level the playing field.

 

[Eddies]

heart the videos, shows a lot more than kitty play, did I miss interaction between B & T? Because I didn't find it. Territorial...yes, but on BOTH boys parts. Lotto has never had to give a real argument & Bucky obviously has. No forethought? Nope, go watch the ladder, see how he THINKS about jumping yet doesn't do it...repeatedly...Eddie would have been ALL OVER THIS. Laundry room: Those boys were doing OK until the female walked thru... see male dominance...see Bucky back down twice...he IS THINKING.... ANOTHER VIDEO SHOWED BUCKY LOOK AWAY THEN REFOCUS ON Lotto, watch Lottos ears in the laundry room& bedroom & on the book case..., not once did he really stop focusing on Bucky, not even when he looked away & got caught (learned behavior, maybe)...from watching these videos compared to what was stated...1) I'm NOT a Breeder. 2) I'm NOT a cat Professional. 3) I HAVE owned & fostered/ rehabed/rehomed DOZENS of feral/abandoned cats r/t owners misunderstanding a pets behaviors. My all time favorite was a Siamese named Pretty Penny...she attacked anything in her sight; humans as well (that's in another post here somewhere). Lotto is NOT an "Alpha" male; Bucky thinks Bucky is, Lotto has enjoyed TOP CAT position...Bucky has NO ETIQUETTE rules except what Bucky wants. Unfortunately you were dealing with life while Bucky was "learning "... now Bucky knows: T is no fun & I can make Lotto squeal, run, & hide... & I already rule the WHOLE house...see Dad come, hear him roar, see Mom come, watch her focus on me me me...see T IGNORE ME. This is not unfixable, it is not typical of SVs, it is not related to the Breeder...it is because Bucky learned bad behaviors related to an emotionally weak (SORRY) male cat: Lotto.
IMHO: It's obvious you want to make this work, If it had/has catnip in/on it: put it in a baggie & store it AWAY.
WHY?
A) The Buspar MIGHT calm Bucky down: READ carefully & know you may need a few tests first: Try a LOW dose of Buspar if your vet approves...if he tolerates it the vet will raise the dosage. http://www.vetinfo.com/buspirone-for-cats.html Yes, I've used it on a few cats for aggression with success.
B) Because Feliway will calm ALL THE cats ;allowing it may have NO affect on BUCKY... Takes about 3 days & you will want to start with an extra one that you can put up after the third day for later use, store it in a baggie in the bottom of the fridge. Check your square footage...
http://www.makinghappierpets.com/portfolio-item/multicat-diffuser/
C) Because the Thunder Shirt ON BUCKY will redirect & slow him down, you don't have to take it off the first few days unless you think it needs readjusted....watch his "armpits": http://www.petsmart.com/cat/stress-...Lh6W1dBpDg8NILLuc_z6c194jlkYj?var_id=36-13550
ALL above aforementioned are SHORT TERM... 6 months more or less.
Forgive me here, I eat my previous statement...for the sake of distraction...Go & get: BATTERIES...
1) a robosweeper http://www.sabco.com.au/index.php/products/robots/robots-consumer/372-robosweep
2) an automatic laser toy like: http://www.petsmart.com/supplies-tr...36-catid-200099?var_id=36-11832&_t=pfm=search,
3) and lastly: http://www.petsmart.com/cat/toys/as...-catid-200021?var_id=36-20125&_t=pfm=category
But no more furniture...no more "Hide n Seek"...Bucky LIKES TO HUNT! He is a cat after all Beginning cost....<$200.00...did you insure Bucky? If you did it could cost less talk to your vet....
Again WHY? Because you are exhausted.heart