Self Regulation?

[Louie'sDad]

You're right. Might as well do it and cross off list. My vet won't check for t.foetus in first test. Says she'll check for other stuff, not sure if she can do t.foetus test if first test is negative. Says it's "hard to see", which agrees with Gookin website, but no reason not to be able to do it. I'd rather have it done locally, where a fresh sample is more easily gotten to the microscope. I'm very cynical by nature. Hate to get suckered by some vet out to make money. Doesn't seem so but I don't know her very well. Takes a leap of faith which I'm always reluctant to do.

By the way, I measured him as best I could this morning. He stood still long enough for me to get a decently accurate 14" tall at highest point mid lumbar vertebrae, and 16" from chest to rump. Hell be 26 w.o. this Friday. Do you figure he's "about" 3/4 of the way to full grown as far as his frame is concerned? If this is true then I project that he'll be about 18 1/2" tall x 21 1/2" long when FG. This would be nice. Could he get bigger? Opinions? Experience?

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

If they are only checking via microscope, it is easy to miss many pathogens. The PCR test is more accurate...but if you want to be super-sure about the T.foetus test then I think Dr Gookin's website even recommends inducing loose stools to make sure any T.foetus present is dislodged and passed so it can be detected.

As to his growth, I don't know if you can make those kind of estimates... domestic cats tend to grow earlier and reach their full potential height while Servals grow for longer. Being F1 you might assume he will grow for longer but how much I don't know if one can really know...

 

[Louie'sDad]

If they are only checking via microscope, it is easy to miss many pathogens. The PCR test is more accurate...but if you want to be super-sure about the T.foetus test then I think Dr Gookin's website even recommends inducing loose stools to make sure any T.foetus present is dislodged and passed so it can be detected.

As to his growth, I don't know if you can make those kind of estimates... domestic cats tend to grow earlier and reach their full potential height while Servals grow for longer. Being F1 you might assume he will grow for longer but how much I don't know if one can really know...

OK fair enough. His growth rate is still same as it's been over last couple months. Even if it slows, he looks like he should still be average size. I keep hearing that early generation SVs continue to grow past 2 YO and sometimes up to 3. I don't know when skeletal growth ceases, however. I would assume that skeletal growth stops not too far past 1 YO and then they continue to "fill out" up to 3 YO. That's why the expert advice can give me a better perspective for projection.

I spoke to Dr. Gookin today. She prefers to draw stool from deep inside the lower bowel with a catheter. We discussed having my vet draw the sample, stabilizing it with alcohol (I believe), and shipping it to her for PCR test @ $77.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

If you really want the definitive answer on the Tritrich question, then do it the way Dr Gookin advises... then you won't need to wonder if it is still a possibility. It's such a tricky pathogen.

What I have seen is that when I saw one of my kittens at 18 months old we measured him at 16 inches at the shoulder, when I saw him again at 4 years of age he was over 18 inches at the shoulder. So that growth happened somewhere between 18 months and 4 years old. I don't tend to measure my cats too often, I know Nina (my 62.5% F1) has put on 3 lbs in the last year (she's 2.5 years old) from her vet visits but she's still rake thin so I think it is skeletal growth rather than filling out. So I think there's potential for growth past when you might expect...but I don't think there's a way to project how much and I don't think there's an average growth rate either.

 

[Louie'sDad]

If you really want the definitive answer on the Tritrich question, then do it the way Dr Gookin advises... then you won't need to wonder if it is still a possibility. It's such a tricky pathogen.

What I have seen is that when I saw one of my kittens at 18 months old we measured him at 16 inches at the shoulder, when I saw him again at 4 years of age he was over 18 inches at the shoulder. So that growth happened somewhere between 18 months and 4 years old. I don't tend to measure my cats too often, I know Nina (my 62.5% F1) has put on 3 lbs in the last year (she's 2.5 years old) from her vet visits but she's still rake thin so I think it is skeletal growth rather than filling out. So I think there's potential for growth past when you might expect...but I don't think there's a way to project how much and I don't think there's an average growth rate either.

Very interesting! That adds to the enjoyment and pleasure of ownership. A happy surprise when your big cat keeps getting bigger into its third and fourth year. I can stop concentrating on his growth rate, and enjoy watching him continue to grow.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Exactly, he sounds like he's already grown well so chances are he'll be a good sized cat, just how big probably depends on which side of his heritage he throws to more

 

[Sunny]

Don't be fooled by kitten vs adult. Look at the ingredients one for one, presence and percentage of nutrients, and there are going to be very minor differences. In one case, I think it was the Wellness kibble, it was identical except 1-2% extra fat in the kitten variety.

 

[Louie'sDad]

Don't be fooled by kitten vs adult. Look at the ingredients one for one, presence and percentage of nutrients, and there are going to be very minor differences. In one case, I think it was the Wellness kibble, it was identical except 1-2% extra fat in the kitten variety.

Guaranteed Analysis varies widely. The most nutrient packed foods typically have protein content in the 50 54 per cent range, fat 20-25 per cent, moisture 8-10 per cent, and 600 kcal/cup.

Lower nutrient foods are around 30-35 protein, 12-18 fat , 8 moisture and 350-450 kcal/cup.

I gave a stool sample to my vet for analysis. Again, she only treats cats, so should have a greater knowledge of them. The test, which was for everything EXCEPT T.foetus, came back negative. I suggested that because the T.foetus test is not always accurate, that we should treat for T.foetus without analysis. She ordered the ronidazole which should arrive Tuesday.

Next question to her: what if the prob is not T.foetus? Likely IBS, but she doesn't want to give steroids, with which I agree fully. Next step will be prescription diet, if necessary.

Meantime, I will switch him over to this:
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/product.aspx?ProductId=88&product=L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Green Pea & Duck Dry Cat Formula&ProductCategoryID=40&category=LID Limited Ingredient Diets Dry Cat Formulas
which does not require a prescription.

Will make the dietary change after the course of R begins. Want to eliminate the tritrich in any case!

Next option if the Natural Balance is NG and tritrich not present will be prescription diet.

Last 2 options, which I don't want to think about right now, would be a very bland single ingredient fresh meat diet with supplements. Finally, the last resort is prednisone.

Joe

 

[John Popp]

Let me know how that food works out for you. Our cats definitely like duck and always give Chongo a bit of kibble in his puzzle feeder before bed. It's seemingly the only food he really likes, although I believe that's in large part due to the puzzle feeder.

 

[Louie'sDad]

Let me know how that food works out for you. Our cats definitely like duck and always give Chongo a bit of kibble in his puzzle feeder before bed. It's seemingly the only food he really likes, although I believe that's in large part due to the puzzle feeder.

Will do!
Can you induce them to eat? I've been saying the words "get some food", "want some food?" etc for awhile now, and he finally knows what it means. I'll walk over to his his bowl, kneel over it, say the words and sometimes he'll come running. I prime him with some bits in my hand. If and when he gets into the bowl, I whisper "good boy" continually with my lips right next to the scruff of his neck. He begins purring and eats voraciously. He eats regularly, but I'm trying to induce him to eat as much as he can. I don't know whether or not this will have a positive effect on his adult length and height. Certainly don't want to make him lose his sleek form, however. He never had a problem eating, and he's been on 2 kinds of canned food, 4 kinds of kibble and eats human food (treats) like peanut butter, salmon, tuna, chicken, chicken eggs, pork, and beef. He laps up the butter if I take my eye off of him, and quickly remove this item.
Try the Royal Canin "Special 33" kibble. It had worked for Lou, but I want to exhaust other possibilities before I put him back on it. He liked it a lot. Hopefully, your cats will as well.

Joe