Big Cats

[admin]

Joe, you were misinformed...And yes it is a sore point...breeders fight the size battle all the time...most Savannahs are NOT big cats and no breeder I know is going to be able to predict your specific height and length image...I suggest you call F1 breeders and talk to them about what you want.

 

[Louie'sDad]

So it's "buyer beware", as no breeder will freely share what they know with a typical buyer. Let's say that someone were to place a pre birth deposit and guaranteed first pick of the litter of their choice. There's no stopping a breeder from culling the best animal before showing the litter to the prospective buyer. Or, if the breeder is more trustworthy, he/she wouldn't give sound advice on which animal to pick as being the biggest from a non-culled litter.

Same old story..............it's who you know................

Unfortunately, a typical buyer like me would have to depend more on luck than on actual knowledge, since the tricks surely take a long time to learn.

 

[admin]

So it's "buyer beware", as no breeder will freely share what they know with a typical buyer. Let's say that someone were to place a pre birth deposit and guaranteed first pick of the litter of their choice. There's no stopping a breeder from culling the best animal before showing the litter to the prospective buyer. Or, if the breeder is more trustworthy, he/she wouldn't give sound advice on which animal to pick as being the biggest from a non-culled litter.

Same old story..............it's who you know................

Unfortunately, a typical buyer like me would have to depend more on luck than on actual knowledge, since the tricks surely take a long time to learn.

Joe, I did not say that...I said that there is never a guarantee on size...I don't know who you are talking to, but I don't know any breeder like you are describing...and no breeder I know takes pre-birth deposits...

There is a great F1 breeder, right on this forum...why don't you pick up the phone and call and talk to her? I just do not understand what it is that you want us to say...there are no tricks involved...once the babies are born, yes, the breeder may be able to tell you which kitten he/she thinks may be a certain size, but even that is NOT guaranteed...usually a breeder will not be able to tell until the kitten is several weeks old, so no pre-birth deposit is going to help you...

 

[Trish Allearz]

I don't get the attitude that's going on in this thread.

Come on-- first of all-- males tend to be bigger than females. Can we all agree to that? Generally speaking? So why would a Savannah breeder hide (which the word 'cull' was used, but it actually is a very bad word-- that means kill, so we'll go with hide) a male kitten of F1/F2 generation from a potential buyer? Are we hoping the magic fertility fairy is going to show up and poof, make his balls fertile? No. That's just silly.

So yes, we offer our males for sale, but as Paige did point out-- we do not GUARANTEE SIZE.

I placed Jack-- who was like 25 pounds at 9 months or something crazy-- with a couple. They asked at 8 weeks, will he be big? I said, "He is a big boy at this moment, but I cannot guarantee size." They asked at 12 weeks if I thought he was big-- I said, "He's bigger than most of my boys at this age, but I cannot guarantee size." Then he went home and he just kept growing!

But what if I had TOLD THEM he would be a monster kitten and he went home and didn't take off? For example-- all of my HUMAN babies have been in the top 90 percentiles for height/weight at birth. Each of my three boys have been like 90/95 percent on the charts at birth and for the first year. If I was looking to sell them, I could say, "Oh, they are huge and they'll be massive adults!" Guess what? I'd be wrong. Two of my three boys tapered off to be average height/weight for their age and my 3 year old is at the 99th percentile for height and still growing (but you know-- I expect his height will taper off too, but maybe he'll be a 6 foot, 6er like his Grandpa.)

That's the point everyone is trying to make. They are also trying to make-- quite humorously-- the point that you already should know since you own a Savannah. Size doesn't matter! Personality, health, etc, are the important aspects of a kitten/cat-- who cares if you have a huge kitten if he drops dead before he's a year old? Yes, makes great bragging for a few months and then you have a dead cat. Or if he's dripping snot or diarrhea for his entire life-- give me a 12 pound cat who is healthy over a 25 pound sick cat (and that's serious too-- medicating the bigger kids is a pain in the butt!)

There is no way to guarantee size. No way to guarantee weight. There is a way to guesstimate and it's how big the same sex older siblings from the exact same pairing are-- but that still only gives you a range of weights and an idea. And ideas can change-- for example, I thought my F6 kitten was going to be a brute of a baby for the first 2-3 weeks of life and now, I think he'll be normal F6 size.

 

[Trish Allearz]

So it's "buyer beware", as no breeder will freely share what they know with a typical buyer. Let's say that someone were to place a pre birth deposit and guaranteed first pick of the litter of their choice. There's no stopping a breeder from culling the best animal before showing the litter to the prospective buyer. Or, if the breeder is more trustworthy, he/she wouldn't give sound advice on which animal to pick as being the biggest from a non-culled litter.

Same old story..............it's who you know................

Unfortunately, a typical buyer like me would have to depend more on luck than on actual knowledge, since the tricks surely take a long time to learn.

I touched upon this already, but why do you think a breeder would 'hide' a bigger kitten? You already know they can't be bred at F1/F2. Can't be shown. What would we gain from 'hiding' a kitten from a seriously prospective buyer?

 

[Louie'sDad]

I touched upon this already, but why do you think a breeder would 'hide' a bigger kitten? You already know they can't be bred at F1/F2. Can't be shown. What would we gain from 'hiding' a kitten from a seriously prospective buyer?

Hide a bigger female for breeder.
Hide a bigger male for a friend/insider, or for a "special" price.

 

[admin]

Hide a bigger female for breeder.
Hide a bigger male for a friend/insider, or for a "special" price.

Where did you get this from? Sue from Amara Savannahs would NEVER do anything like that...neither would most of the F1 breeders I know...as a matter-of-fact, I don't know any breeders who would be so dishonest, no matter what generation...

So...again I ask...where are you getting such info?

 

[Trish Allearz]

I can't tell if you're just being silly or really believe what you're saying. Yes, we'll hold back a kitten we choose to keep or mark it for breeding only, but guess what? Size has nothing to do with it. As for a special price, don't you think you'd be offered a shot if someone wanted to ask more for a kitten? Why would you not be offered a chance to buy?


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[Carykd7kau]

I don't understand this. I see several breeders trying to say that there is NO WAY they can predict the size of their babies or what the babies will be when they grow up. They can GUESS, but it is just that, A GUESS. NO ONE would write or sign a contract based on a guess. I know these ladies here on the forum are breeders of integrity... I would trust them all if I was contracting a kitten. All they want is to produce happy, healthy and loving kittens. IF they turn out to be big. Hooray, if not, then they are normal sized Savannah cats. And those cats can be just as happy healthy and energetic. This size thing is getting out of control. The breeders here are just telling it like it is. There is no way to predict.

 

[Louie'sDad]

Of course, I realize that nothing in life is guaranteed, but, just like when one plays blackjack, the idea is to increase the odds in your favor.

If I had an honest breeder tell me, at 8 weeks, that a certain kitten was bigger than his siblings or was a "big boy at the moment, but........", then I'd say the odds were somewhat better that he'd mature into a bigger cat than his siblings.

Don't misunderstand me...................Louie is beautiful, healthy and much bigger than the average house cat. He puts a smile on my face all day long, and when "doglike" is used, then it fits him to a tee!

If I decide to spend another 10-18K on one of these very special cats, then I'd like to "maximize the odds" that he will be a big fellah.

No, I don't care for a Maine Coon. They don't have that "wild-cat" look and personailty of a F1 Savannah.