Big Cats

[Trish Allearz]

Here is where the confusion comes in for me: can you tell me AROUND what size range the breeder male Serval is in breeding F1's. I Wikipedia Serval and see that males are more than 20 pounds........up to 40.

Am I getting the picture, correctly that only the smallest male Servals are suitable to breed with an F3 female?

What does the serval size matter?

And yes, you are right. This world is buyer beware. Which is why this site is so important. It's not particularly who you know, but what you know. If you're educated about the breed, you'll walk away from a breeder who is promising a huge cat and work with a breeder who answers your questions honestly, even if it's not the answer you may want.


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[SV Dad]

Joe, size is variable. I have F3 brothers from separate litters. Rascal is 12 pounds, Mayhem is 10 pounds.
Read the thread Atticus Diaries. Atticus is a F1 masquerading as a baby moose. Atticus is a litter mate to John Popp's Dino. Read the Codename Dino thread. Dino is way smaller.
So toss in to this my son's F3 moose at 19 pounds.
We use the same breeder Joe. This breeder has shot straight with me. I did put down a prebirth deposit, because I wanted a specific breeding. I wanted a full brother to Rascal. I was warned that the breeding might not produce a male. As it turned out the litter was 1 male and three females. I would have got my deposit back or applied to another kitten had I chosen, if an acceptable male was not born. And to defend this breeder, I had a deposit down on a kitten for my son, and the kitten died 1 week before delivery. We were able to work out another kitten for my son. It was the semi-moose described above. PM me if you have any questions.

 

[ambiente18]

4 years ago I was a buyer in A1 SAVANNAHS and I also wanted to buy a big cat... I will never forget the excellent work of Kathrin Stucki with me about Savannah and her size...She explained everything to me...Kathrin Stucki explaned me how is difficult to imagine the size of Savannah, and more...and more... Thank you Kathrin

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

Here is where the confusion comes in for me: can you tell me AROUND what size range the breeder male Serval is in breeding F1's. I Wikipedia Serval and see that males are more than 20 pounds........up to 40.

Am I getting the picture, correctly that only the smallest male Servals are suitable to breed with an F3 female?

No, I think I have seen some larger 40+lb Servals in programs. It would make sense that a smaller Serval male might find it easier logistically to breed a domestic female but it doesn't always seem to be that way. It is but one of the many factors that go into a successful F1 program...

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

This is a question of ethics.
Someone mentioned above that there are 2 types of breeders. So, how do you really know one from the other? REALLY? It comes down to what I said before..........it's who you know.

Of course anyone spending the kind of money that fetches an F1 Savannah needs to be very careful. If I wanted a big cat, then I'd look for a Serval at less than half the cost of an F1 (don't pile on if this isn't completely accurate, but you get the idea).

A breeder who is "courting" a prospective mark......er, customer......will always be dripping honey. Unless you are a very good judge of character, have inside info, or were warned against certain breeders by friends who KNOW THE SCORE, then you're basically screwed.

I think your view is pretty insulting to the breeders on this forum. You say 2 types of breeder YET you seem fixated on the few breeders that may be unethical enough to misrepresent their cats rather than be practical enough to know that in all walks of life there are honest and dishonest fault and caveat emptor... This forum is full of breeders that would be honest with you. Even when directing you to another breeder, the ones that put in major amounts of time on this forum are NOT being paid! We are not profiting by giving advice. I have NEVER even cut even in my cattery "business" let alone profited from it.

I don't drip with honey with a buyer... maybe because I do Rescue, I simply don't wish to misrepresent a cat or kitten and have it end up needing a new home! I think I probably err on the side of caution and give them all the worst case scenarios so that they are pleasantly surprised when kitten ownership is easier than expected. I think most the breeders here care so much about their cats they want to make sure they go to the right home.

So when a breeder on her (eg Paige) recommends an F1 breeder (eg Sue) then this is a clue that that breeder is perceived as ethical...and a good start for a search. I would add a recommendation (in addition to Sue) of Rise" of Sadies Savannahs as although I've not bought from her I've known her online for years also and she's a straight-shooter. This doesn't mean that you don't ask that recommended breeder a pile of questions and expect answers you are comfortable with.

But in terms of "it's who you know", you are somewhat correct... this simply comes down to as a buyer you need to research the breeder to the level that you are confident they are being honest and helpful and not just pushing for a sale. I would tend to expect that a smaller hobby breeder is going to be better than a large-scale operation where they actually DO expect to make a profit hence are more likely to make decisions based on finances. It's both what you know and who you know. The "what" influences the "who".

 

[NikkiA]

View attachment 14924 Baby Jarvis

It doesn't like my attempts to upload a large file

Jarvis (still a kitten) in bed with us:

Jarvis at 1 year old:


Big boy Jarvis, with Mickey:


Again with Mickey:

And on a Yoga mats:


Will try to post better full body photos later. This is me trying to post from my computer- I have a photo of me holding him where you can see better how large he is that I'll try to upload.

 

[Rafiki]

Your cats do yoga? Hmm....from the pictures, it may work.....they certainly appear calm.

 

[Louie'sDad]

Well just saw this thread we have been owned by 2 F1s and F2s BOTH our F2 boys were ABOVE average. Our F1s we have one avaerage and a tiny guy LOL The tiny guy is like a mini serval REALLY REALLY We are soo THANKFUL he IS a tiny guy LOL I am NOT a breeder personally I think F2 males are "more" apt to average out on the larger size. Hubby discovered this breed in 2005 the maine coon serval mix and then the F2 generation of that mix were the largest in pictures I had seen of SVs

I'm almost afraid to ask............................what are the vital dimensions of your tiny F1 male? Please don't say 17 pounds and 16" tall at the shoulder.

I can't for the life of me understand why many F2 males are bigger than F1 males........unless...............a certain amount of "stunted growth" happens in the first gestation hybridization. Serval males are BIG.

 

[NikkiA]

Your cats do yoga? Hmm....from the pictures, it may work.....they certainly appear calm.

There is nothing D likes more than jumping down from the book case and doing Cat on Mike's back while we go through a vinyasa.
Cracks the yoga instructor up

 

[Louie'sDad]

[quote="NikkiA, post: 82332, member: 731"]If you don't mind me asking, why do you want such a large cat specifically?

Our F3 boy is 19 pounds of muscle. He isn't all that tall, but he is big.
My husband is 6'4, and Jarvis our F3 boy looks giant in his arms. In my arms (I'm only 5'2) he looks even bigger. To be honest, Diablo at 15 pounds (F5) and Mickey at 12 pounds (F4) are much easier for me to pick up and lug around and have (in my mind) a long leggy look. Jarvis is tough at the vet or when he is frightened. A frantic 19 pound cat is a LOT harder to deal with than a frantic 12 pound cat. BTW he was a tiny tiny kitten, 1.6 pounds when he came home.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm genuinely interested.[/quote]

Some reasons:

I'm a man.
I live alone at the present time.
Tigers have always been my favorite animal.
I read Life of Pi two years ago.l
I own the most beautiful, loyal, loving F1 who is (probably) much smaller than "average" (whatever that is?), but was expecting a cat somewhere between 17-22 pounds.
I am not afraid of being hurt/mauled.
I have given up total control of my home to Louie, and there's nothing left to protect.
I want Louie to have a constant companion when I can't be with him.
Louie is one tough SOB, and has a Napoleon complex.