Cat relationships, dominance, submissiveness and what is normal?

[Ninja-n-Bear]

Yay! So glad they’ve worked it out!

 

[Moggieslegacy]

Yesterday I managed to get a short video of HB ?dominating? WC... (uploaded and shared through google drive in link below) Unfortunately I haven't managed to get a picture of WC when he looks blissfully happy and falls asleep under HB, while HB does his thing. When I filmed this WC had just woke up and looks like he is feeling a bit squashed and for reasons he doesn't understand, ( and neither do I) the privacy of his bum is being violated by HB's face.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GzOaeQIywiRUqT752YHXwzmEhwmyN_aR/view?usp=sharing

But HB seems to be feeling a lot more confident.

They have such different personalities! WC is still a big soft Moma's boy of a kitten, even though he is close to a year and a half old. HB came to live with me when he was 4 and a 1/2 months old, but I have never felt he sees me as his Mom. He has always seemed like a sensitive old soul who is super independant, but who never really consented to be a human pet. (We are good friends and he trusts me and is affectionate on his own terms, but he doesn't seem to see me as a closely related species?) It will be interesting to see how our relationship changes as the cat proof fence I am building around our large rural yard nears completion, and he won't need to constantly try to entice me to go out with him. Hopefully it will be a big improvement for him! But I hope when he has access to our large yard WC doesn't change much, and this extra territory won't upset the dynamics of their relationship. WC is such a big, silly, rambunctious, soft, happy go lucky, perpetual kitten there is not a lot in his life that needs any improving, and the fenced area is more for HB.

 

[Ninja-n-Bear]

HB came to live with me when he was 4 and a 1/2 months old, but I have never felt he sees me as his Mom. He has always seemed like a sensitive old soul who is super independant, but who never really consented to be a human pet.

I love this description. It fits our girl Zazu to a ‘t’. She loves me on her own terms, for sure, and does let me touch her on occasion, more so because I need it than because she wants to be touched, I think. She came to us at 5 months old.

 

[Hippy]

I believe it's in there DNA

Everything has to be on there terms.



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Moggieslegacy]

HB was more comfortable with close physical contact when he was under 6 months. We became friends right away, as soon as he learned I would throw his mouse toy and play fetch. And the first couple months he was here he would sometimes snuggle with me. This has changed as he has gotten mature. With a couple exceptions he has never been melt into me cuddly like WC and all my previous cats. He perches like a bird and thoroughly enjoys my strokes and attention, but anything resembling a relaxed merging seems to trigger a claustrophobic response.. Sort of like the typical reaction of a human teenager to open displays of parental affection with all their friends watching. The thing that totally melted my heart and hooked me into being willing to do pretty much anything for such an aloof character, is there has been a couple times I have had a really rough day that made me cry, and both times HB spent the night under the covers, right up next to me, in a full body cuddle. Something he would never do, even briefly, since he was a kitten. He is amazingly intelligent, and very kind hearted, with an obvious capacity for compassion. He seems to understand almost everything I say.

I think most cats are genetically wired to do things on their own terms, and up until very recently cats evolved being free to come and go as they pleased, and could choose who they best liked to live with. But there is a subtle difference in HBs attitude, and I have wondered if it is his randomly inherited distant Serval genes that contribute to this? I have often seen his independent somewhat claustrophobic social tendencies described by people who live with cats that are higher generation. And I worry that if I was to die or be unable to care for him, it would be really really really hard on him. I lived with a super shy cat before, but this is more than just shy... WC is an F6, but not SBT like HB who is F 7. WC is the best melty mergy and creatively inventive cuddlier ever. So if it is a genetic thing, not all SVs inherit it!

 

[Ninja-n-Bear]

Sort of like the typical reaction of a human teenager to open displays of parental affection with all their friends watching.

You may have something with the Serval genetics thing, I don’t know much about genetics, but I know Zazu got a decent dose of her grandfathers sauce. She has the language (have never heard her actually ‘meow’), and the looks, and the personality. She has always been more of a cat’s cat, but even then, she only wants to be touched if she initiates the contact. Our newest enjoys flopping to the floor at my feet (so cute) for pets, which Zazu views with some confusion. I think she thinks we’ve brain-washed them. Some special kind of torture...

 

[cbain]

A great resource that might help you understand how and why cats interact with each other is a book called Cat vs. Cat - you can find it on Amazon.com

I looked up the book Cat vs Cat and it looks like it has a lot of information on having multi. cats and I just ordered it, Thanks Patti.

 

[Ditto Girl 2019]

Yesterday I managed to get a short video of HB ?dominating? WC... (uploaded and shared through google drive in link below) Unfortunately I haven't managed to get a picture of WC when he looks blissfully happy and falls asleep under HB, while HB does his thing. When I filmed this WC had just woke up and looks like he is feeling a bit squashed and for reasons he doesn't understand, ( and neither do I) the privacy of his bum is being violated by HB's face.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GzOaeQIywiRUqT752YHXwzmEhwmyN_aR/view?usp=sharing

But HB seems to be feeling a lot more confident.

They have such different personalities! WC is still a big soft Moma's boy of a kitten, even though he is close to a year and a half old. HB came to live with me when he was 4 and a 1/2 months old, but I have never felt he sees me as his Mom. He has always seemed like a sensitive old soul who is super independant, but who never really consented to be a human pet. (We are good friends and he trusts me and is affectionate on his own terms, but he doesn't seem to see me as a closely related species?) It will be interesting to see how our relationship changes as the cat proof fence I am building around our large rural yard nears completion, and he won't need to constantly try to entice me to go out with him. Hopefully it will be a big improvement for him! But I hope when he has access to our large yard WC doesn't change much, and this extra territory won't upset the dynamics of their relationship. WC is such a big, silly, rambunctious, soft, happy go lucky, perpetual kitten there is not a lot in his life that needs any improving, and the fenced area is more for HB.

HB was more comfortable with close physical contact when he was under 6 months. We became friends right away, as soon as he learned I would throw his mouse toy and play fetch. And the first couple months he was here he would sometimes snuggle with me. This has changed as he has gotten mature. With a couple exceptions he has never been melt into me cuddly like WC and all my previous cats. He perches like a bird and thoroughly enjoys my strokes and attention, but anything resembling a relaxed merging seems to trigger a claustrophobic response.. Sort of like the typical reaction of a human teenager to open displays of parental affection with all their friends watching. The thing that totally melted my heart and hooked me into being willing to do pretty much anything for such an aloof character, is there has been a couple times I have had a really rough day that made me cry, and both times HB spent the night under the covers, right up next to me, in a full body cuddle. Something he would never do, even briefly, since he was a kitten. He is amazingly intelligent, and very kind hearted, with an obvious capacity for compassion. He seems to understand almost everything I say.

I think most cats are genetically wired to do things on their own terms, and up until very recently cats evolved being free to come and go as they pleased, and could choose who they best liked to live with. But there is a subtle difference in HBs attitude, and I have wondered if it is his randomly inherited distant Serval genes that contribute to this? I have often seen his independent somewhat claustrophobic social tendencies described by people who live with cats that are higher generation. And I worry that if I was to die or be unable to care for him, it would be really really really hard on him. I lived with a super shy cat before, but this is more than just shy... WC is an F6, but not SBT like HB who is F 7. WC is the best melty mergy and creatively inventive cuddlier ever. So if it is a genetic thing, not all SVs inherit it!

Hello. Enjoy reading the stories here. I am new to join and I have a F3 female (Ditto) who is now 15 months and I have a 13 year old DSH rescue (Fang). I kept them separated for a about a month to allow each to become adjusted over time to each other's oder etc. I didn't want the arrangement to fail. Fang has been my numero uno for as many years as he is old and I didn't want him to suddenly feel 2nd best to a new kitten. Ditto is a shy girl and looks for Fang when he is off in another room sleeping, which at his age he does more often. Fang is the cuddle bug but has a tendency to soft nip if he has had enough of you. Ditto is aggressive little girl and is always up for hard play with Fang and both galloping up and down the hall and staircases. I hear them exchange yowls at each other and have seen them wrestling and trying to bite and kick each other but later they are eating from the same plate. I sometimes will throw something to distract them when they are wrestling and carrying on but all in all there is a respect and bond going on between them. I let them sort it out. The breeder of Ditto was happy to find a quiet home for her; she was described as being shy and ready to retreat when ever there were loud noises. I live alone with my two buddies and daily enjoy their antics. Ditto has this thing about carrying things to the water bowl and leaving her toys floating in there or else knocking the water over. When she is out on my deck - no fly escapes her notice. Last night she managed to capture and cute little frog and brought it inside. I removed the frog from her mouth to transplant back to a plant on the deck - haven't seen him so I hope he is okay. Finding toys that interest either one is a challenge as the predictable cat toys arouse no interest. The favorite is a buzzard feather tied to a string that I wave around for them and a laser for Ditto. Just the click of the button has her attention 100 percent which has segue wayed into clicker training for her. Thank you, Alison

 

[Moggieslegacy]

Fang and Ditto look like very sweet characters! And the various cat dramas are fun to watch and try to understand!

 

[Ditto Girl 2019]

Fang and Ditto look like very sweet characters! And the various cat dramas are fun to watch and try to understand!

Thank you for the compliment Miss Moggiesnewmom! I have been re-reading the comments especially am curious re: the consensus on behavior of the Savannah. I have the same challenge with Ditto. She is sweet but aloof. The 1st month she wanted to spend alot of her day hiding under my sofa and guest bed. I did my research and gradually blocked her escapes to force her to be out vs hiding. I focus on giving her lots of touch, hugging, burying my face into her and make noises. I can trim her front nails without issue. There are rare times that she will initiate a crawl into my lap but doesn't remain very long. Her attention span is short and even when eating she is easily distracted and will take off running thru the house to return later to eat. She has curious behavior in that when I approach her she flops on the carpet in front of me and rolls so I reward her with belly rubs and scratches up and down her back and she always has a soft purr when we do this routine - she enjoys that. Both cats sleep on my bed where I become the filling for the cat sandwich; Fang spoons on one side and Ditto nestles close, usually behind my legs but never any higher then my knees. I have been working with Ditto in recognizing her name when called - challenging. She is not food motivated thus her progress is very slow where Fang was easier to learn in doing silly tricks, coming when called, lap loving etc. Ditto mimics his behavior - if he begs for a treat, she checks his behavior and follows his lead. Fang the facilitator! Am grateful for his assistance. Since I am teleworking I am grateful to have minutes to stop and reach out for Ditto. Her routine is both like to hang out on the deck for a bit in this heat and then both come in with Ditto retreating under the guest room bed for a nap. I peer under there to call her name and just make sure she is inside and she will come out in a few moments to walk around and then return to under the bed. Every now and then I take Ditto to visit my neighbors and she trembles while we visit; I encourage the husband to hold her on his lap and she sits cuddling while he continuously rubs her head and ears. Neighbor husband enjoys that but not so sure Ditto does. Neighbors have a well behaved yellow Lab; Ditto was born with home having a dog and multiple adult and kitten Savannahs and I hope that it is not a sensory overload for her. I remind myself that a bond is not created overnight but am hoping with time Ditto will become a more affectionate, confident kitty. If it is in her DNA to remain as she is - I love her just the same.