Cat relationships, dominance, submissiveness and what is normal?

[Moggieslegacy]

Your descriptions of Ditto's behavior sound so much like HB!

HB is also very restless and getting him to finish his food without getting distracted and running off is often a challenge. He has a good appetite, but left on his own would eat over an hour with a lot of excursions in between. This requires supervision, as WC will happily eat his lunch. HB also likes to play a bit, eat a few bites, then play more, then eat....

And HB also enjoys rolling around on my rug or in the grass and getting petted. When he was first here he would sometimes get under the covers and lay next to me, or relax on my lap, but he has always seemed to have a tendency to claustrophobia, and he has only rarely been a lap cat since he has become an adult. He enjoys being petted if he is standing up high on something so I am not looming over him, and I have also found he eats more if his food dish is up somewhere high too.

HB resists being picked up, though sometimes he will let me for 1/2 a minute and continue purring if I lean back making my chest and arms into a bit of a raised platform. I always put him down as soon as he indicates this is what he wants, and have never felt comfortable to pursue him, or impose any closer contact that he is clearly enjoying. He has always been extremely sensitive and well behaved. He likes to cooperate. But unlike Moggie, I never have felt like I am his Mom. We live together and I am his dedicated servant. But sometimes I see him looking at me like he doesn't recall actually consenting to such a close relationship with a human and he is a bit puzzled by the situation...Maybe that is some randomly inherited Serval genes? Although HB is an F7 SBT, in many ways his personality seems more like the descriptions I read of Savannahs with a higher Serval percentage.

Even though I took HB for a walk once or twice a day his first year and a half, and we usually crossed paths with other people, he has gradually gotten more and more shy, to the point it seemed taking him for walks was more of a stress on him than a pleasure. Watching him he seemed to prefer to stay in our yard, so now it is fenced, that is where he goes. He hides from guests, but I have noticed he is a bit less bug eyed when they leave, now he can hide in the yard. Unfortunately, feeling anxious about being trapped seems to be a central theme for him. The large fenced yard has really helped!

A couple things that are super sweet is that even though he seems to get antsy real fast about being too up close and personal, if he sees I am deeply upset he seems to put that aside to be there for me. When it was the 1 year anniversary of Moggies death I spent a very sad 3 days as it all came back to me, and even though HB had rejected overly close contact for months, he spent 3 whole nights under my covers beside me and in full body contact. And he did the same a few months later, when I was really upset to feel forced to see the seemingly incompetent vet who had been seeing Moggie before he died. I ended up sitting with HB in his carrier in the parking lot in tears, waiting to see the vet I trusted, who I made the appointment to see, who was busy. ( I was upset because HB's illness was stress related and having to wait was not what was best for him) And HB who usually stops trusting me for a while after the vet, again spent the night beside me under the covers. Something he has never ever done except for a few minutes when he was a young kitten. I really think he understood how upset I was and wanted to comfort me. HB also will let me carry him for 1/4 mile if we are out for a walk and we have to walk along the road, which he absolutely hates. But amazingly he will relax and let me carry him even though he is terrified of cars, and he struggles to get down after a couple seconds in any other situation. So his intelligence, sensitivity and trust more than make up for his general need to be independent.

WC is amazingly cuddly. He does this full body head butt and just melts into me. Throughout the day he needs to be picked up and carried around like a big baby. At night WC will find a spot under the covers beside my chest or neck, where he leans in. HB always curls up in the crook of my legs on top of the bed and is super sensitive to any movement, and will leave if he gets nervous. So I also end up uncomfortably sandwiched between 2 cats, afraid to move because I don't want HB to leave.. WC also will lick my finger tips while cuddling, then tunnel down and nibble my toes and then come back up and nibble my fingers some more. If he was any more affectionate it would be too much. So Savannahs can be very cuddly, though some are not.

SInce I have fenced my yard so they both can be out as much as they want in the daytime, their relationship seems to have changed. HB would never stay on the bed if WC was on top of it too, but lately they seem to be preferring to cuddle together at the foot of the bed. Which is nice as I don't get stuck between them. Also, WC has started grooming HB. It used to just be HB grooming WC, but now they do it together and HB seems totally blissed out to get his face and ears washed. So happy cats!

 

[Moggieslegacy]

Oh... another behaviour HB does that seems to maybe come from his independent Serval genes, is when he is in one of his higher perches, if I reach up to pet him, I almost always get my hand quickly smacked hard with a soft claws in paw. Like, the high up places are his private domain and I need to keep my stinky human hands out.

 

[Ditto Girl 2019]

I have always just had one cat at a time, so I”m not really sure what normal relationship dynamics between two cats that are friends should look like, and what might be trouble brewing that can be averted.

If anyone can share stories about their cat’s relationships, and how this works, or doesn’t, or interpret what is going on between my 2 - I would really appreciate it!

I live with 2 Savannah cats. A 2 and 1/4 years old neutered male F7 SBT and a 1 and a 1/4 year old F6 who is also a neutered male.

My older F7 cat who has previously been introduced here as HB is probably not a typical Savannah in his personality. He has never climbed the curtains or trashed a roll of toilet paper. He is super sensitive and responds to even the gentlest “no”, and he generally seems to delight in anticipating what I want and being well behaved. He is extremely intelligent and he has a lot of restless energy, is often bored, and seems good at envisioning ways his life could be improved and he lets me know what he wants, but never in a way that becomes too annoying. I work out of my home and my cats get a lot of attention. HB probably walks a couple miles a day through a series of walkways and enclosures I made for him, and but getting him interested in a game is challenging and he has always been very particular about what toys he likes. When he was a kitten he loved playing fetch with a realistic looking toy mouse, but as soon as he regularly began catching real mice in the enclosures, the only toy that really gets him going is various stuff tied to a wand toy.

When HB had been with me almost a year I decided to get him a buddy. I chose an F6, as I was concerned a regular kitten might not be able to cope with a robust Savannah. I had thought I was going to pick up the little Mel in the litter, but when I got there the kitten I have mentioned here before as WC seemed to fall in love with me, and the little black one just seemed to want to be left alone. So I came home with WC.

At first HB was absolutely terrified of the kitten in the quarantine room and he spent the first couple days hiding in my workshop needing me to bring him food and water and a litter box. After about 8 days he had worked up the courage to start to come close enough to hiss at WC’s little feet he could see under the crack in the door. A few days after WC came to live with us, we got hit with a hurricane force windstorm, and we had no power for more than a week, which made the whole quarantine a lot more difficult. I live in a tiny house so managing 2 cats in different rooms and candles when it was dark 16 hours a day was a bit of a nightmare.

Anyways, after 8 days, one dark morning WC managed to slip past me, and he chased HB downstairs. I ran down after them and by the time I caught up to them, they were taking turns approaching each other, both skipping with playful intentions, and both clearly delighted to meet each other. So that was the end of the total quarantine.

Initially HB seemed to absolutely love having a kitten! There was occasional play that seemed a bit rough, (HB’s open mouth resting on WC’s neck) but the gentlest reminder from me and HB would back off. WC was not at all intimidated and always immediately came back for more. They would enthusiastically play together for hours every day. They often slept together and HB would groom WC, and really seemed to take on the role of big brother or Dad.

As an example of how much HB loved WC... HB’s favourite treat is freeze dried chicken necks, and the first time they were together and I offered HB his favourite treat, HB dropped his treat in front of WC. I took it away and gave it back to HB. He again dropped it in front of WC. So I again took it away and put it just outside the cat flap for HB. And he went and got it and again dropped it in front of WC! I was really surprised he would be so nurturing! It also seemed like HB was intentionally bringing WC mice as gifts, but I wasn’t really sure until one morning HB came running downstairs as soon as I got up, and with a big puffy tail asked to go out on the enclosed back porch, where it turned out he had left a 1/2 frozen dead mouse the night before. He right away got it and dropped it in front of WC, and then backed off and watched WC play with it, and refused to play too, even when WC batted it in his direction. He clearly had been looking forward to giving his catch to WC and was just waiting for me to get up so he could go get it.

HB always puts WC first, (or maybe he is just afraid of any potential conflict?) If there is food, HB stands back until WC eats his fill. If there is a game with a wand toy, HB stands back and lets WC have his fun, but he seems to enjoy watching and will come closer just to observe. If I try and wear WC out and then play with HB, WC doesn’t wear out. And if I try and put WC out on the porch, so HB has a chance to play too, HB will just go sit and stare at the door until I let WC in, and WC generally loudly howls to be let back to play the game...

WC is a happy go lucky, rambunctious, mischievous, confident but pretty obnoxious character who will knock HB aside when he wants something, without a second thought. WC has Savannah batteries than need to be discharged or he over amps. He climbs the curtains, uses my mosquito/ spider net as a trampoline and my objections just mean he hasn’t managed to convince me what a wonderful game it is...yet!! WC is also totally sweet and charming, extremely cuddly and a nice change from HB’s extremely cautious reserved and extremely particular nature. But he is also a totally inconsiderate jerk when it comes to HB, and I am pretty sure HB is starting to resent that.

WC just assumes everything nice is for him, and HB is just in the way. WC is never nasty or aggressive, just oblivious and pushy. But lately I notice HB giving WC the stink eye, or outright running away or hissing in WC’s face when WC shows up to take whatever HB is enjoying for himself. But as WC matures and is now bigger than HB, when HB stands aside he starting to have a disdainful “WOW are you ever an inconsiderate jerk” toss of the head that wasn’t there before.

They still play together a bit every day and sometimes nap together. WC seems to totally trust HB. HB likes to stick his bum in WC’s face, sniff WC’s bum, and straddle WC. Not sure what HB is doing, but WC never does it to HB. It looks like maybe some kind of dominance thing but WC doesn’t seem to mind at all. The other day WC was sleeping by the fire and HB came and straddled him and took WC’s neck in his mouth. WC just rolled over so he was tummy up, extended his vulnerable throat, raised his paws and stretched his front legs and fell back asleep while HB dominated him (if that is what was going on?) then HB decided rather then killing WC, a bath was a better idea and he began grooming him...

WC rarely grooms HB, and I often get the feeling WC would be perfectly happy being the only cat. He doesn’t really seem to appreciate HB and often ignores HB when HB tries to invite him to play.

They both seem to have mostly worked out certain times they have with me, and avoid having to share me. If WC is on my lap HB won’t come up. And if HB is on my lap and WC tries to come up, HB leaves in disgust. They have never both been on my lap at the same time. HB loves curling up on top of the bed in the crook of my legs, and WC likes snuggling beside me under the covers, so they manage to share me without having to interact with each other. But if I get up, they will both cuddle together on the bed. Something they never do when I am in it...

I try to provide a lot of things they can only play with together like a ripple rug and fortresses of boxes and cushions.. and that seems to help.

And clicker training may be helping a tiny bit as WC will sit and wait his turn for a treat rather than just try to take HB’s. But he still needs to be reminded to wait his turn.

So I would love to know more about people’s experiences with cats that get along or don’t, what is normal, how this gets worked out or doesn’t, and what the dynamics are. Or even just what submissive or dominant behaviour looks like in a cat?

I so thoroughly enjoyed reading your observations about your two cats and their behavior. Very insightful and I can tell that you have a great understanding of their behaviors and posturing. It always amazes me that there are people that have pets but never get beyond surface knowledge learning to understand why animals behave the way they do!

 

[Ditto Girl 2019]

You may have something with the Serval genetics thing, I don’t know much about genetics, but I know Zazu got a decent dose of her grandfathers sauce. She has the language (have never heard her actually ‘meow’), and the looks, and the personality. She has always been more of a cat’s cat, but even then, she only wants to be touched if she initiates the contact. Our newest enjoys flopping to the floor at my feet (so cute) for pets, which Zazu views with some confusion. I think she thinks we’ve brain-washed them. Some special kind of torture...

My Ditto does the same flopping antics and wiggles while I pet and scratch her. I see this as submissive & trusting behavior from her- showing her belly to me. I try to be as hands on with her as possible; when I pick her up and she wiggles to get free, I hold her with a hand under her chest until I decide she can leave my lap. I am working on getting her to recognize when I call her name. Her attention span is like a snap but that soft click noise her laser toy makes - her attention becomes rivited to me! I am trying to build on that! She has now advanced to pulling my pantry cubboard open when she wants more to eat or doesn't like what I offered her. My older cat Fang enjoys this trick because invariably Ditto pulls the Temptations container out and pulls the lid off, then Fang moves in so he can eat his fill. Fang is food driven and he would do anything to hoover those treats endlessly. I call that stuff Cat Crack and ration it out very miserly. I used it to train him to do tricks and it worked fine but personally I offer it in small quantities. Ditto sees Fang's excitement about the stuff and she mimics his behavior! Last night I had such a scare. I ususally let both cats out on my deck; Fang enjoys just laying on the deck whereas Ditto is chasing and eating any bug she nails. I was outside with them when I see Ditto leap to get on the top railing and she overjumped and was hanging off the railing about to fall but with her claws pulled herself up from falling. I just about fainted! I live 3 stories up and I know what they say about the ability of cats falling from heights being able to land without hurting themselves but that scared me and I won't let either of them out on the deck unless I am with them. Thank goodness I had not trimmed her front claws in a few months!

 

[Ditto Girl 2019]

Your descriptions of Ditto's behavior sound so much like HB!

HB is also very restless and getting him to finish his food without getting distracted and running off is often a challenge. He has a good appetite, but left on his own would eat over an hour with a lot of excursions in between. This requires supervision, as WC will happily eat his lunch. HB also likes to play a bit, eat a few bites, then play more, then eat....

And HB also enjoys rolling around on my rug or in the grass and getting petted. When he was first here he would sometimes get under the covers and lay next to me, or relax on my lap, but he has always seemed to have a tendency to claustrophobia, and he has only rarely been a lap cat since he has become an adult. He enjoys being petted if he is standing up high on something so I am not looming over him, and I have also found he eats more if his food dish is up somewhere high too.

HB resists being picked up, though sometimes he will let me for 1/2 a minute and continue purring if I lean back making my chest and arms into a bit of a raised platform. I always put him down as soon as he indicates this is what he wants, and have never felt comfortable to pursue him, or impose any closer contact that he is clearly enjoying. He has always been extremely sensitive and well behaved. He likes to cooperate. But unlike Moggie, I never have felt like I am his Mom. We live together and I am his dedicated servant. But sometimes I see him looking at me like he doesn't recall actually consenting to such a close relationship with a human and he is a bit puzzled by the situation...Maybe that is some randomly inherited Serval genes? Although HB is an F7 SBT, in many ways his personality seems more like the descriptions I read of Savannahs with a higher Serval percentage.

Even though I took HB for a walk once or twice a day his first year and a half, and we usually crossed paths with other people, he has gradually gotten more and more shy, to the point it seemed taking him for walks was more of a stress on him than a pleasure. Watching him he seemed to prefer to stay in our yard, so now it is fenced, that is where he goes. He hides from guests, but I have noticed he is a bit less bug eyed when they leave, now he can hide in the yard. Unfortunately, feeling anxious about being trapped seems to be a central theme for him. The large fenced yard has really helped!

A couple things that are super sweet is that even though he seems to get antsy real fast about being too up close and personal, if he sees I am deeply upset he seems to put that aside to be there for me. When it was the 1 year anniversary of Moggies death I spent a very sad 3 days as it all came back to me, and even though HB had rejected overly close contact for months, he spent 3 whole nights under my covers beside me and in full body contact. And he did the same a few months later, when I was really upset to feel forced to see the seemingly incompetent vet who had been seeing Moggie before he died. I ended up sitting with HB in his carrier in the parking lot in tears, waiting to see the vet I trusted, who I made the appointment to see, who was busy. ( I was upset because HB's illness was stress related and having to wait was not what was best for him) And HB who usually stops trusting me for a while after the vet, again spent the night beside me under the covers. Something he has never ever done except for a few minutes when he was a young kitten. I really think he understood how upset I was and wanted to comfort me. HB also will let me carry him for 1/4 mile if we are out for a walk and we have to walk along the road, which he absolutely hates. But amazingly he will relax and let me carry him even though he is terrified of cars, and he struggles to get down after a couple seconds in any other situation. So his intelligence, sensitivity and trust more than make up for his general need to be independent.

WC is amazingly cuddly. He does this full body head butt and just melts into me. Throughout the day he needs to be picked up and carried around like a big baby. At night WC will find a spot under the covers beside my chest or neck, where he leans in. HB always curls up in the crook of my legs on top of the bed and is super sensitive to any movement, and will leave if he gets nervous. So I also end up uncomfortably sandwiched between 2 cats, afraid to move because I don't want HB to leave.. WC also will lick my finger tips while cuddling, then tunnel down and nibble my toes and then come back up and nibble my fingers some more. If he was any more affectionate it would be too much. So Savannahs can be very cuddly, though some are not.

SInce I have fenced my yard so they both can be out as much as they want in the daytime, their relationship seems to have changed. HB would never stay on the bed if WC was on top of it too, but lately they seem to be preferring to cuddle together at the foot of the bed. Which is nice as I don't get stuck between them. Also, WC has started grooming HB. It used to just be HB grooming WC, but now they do it together and HB seems totally blissed out to get his face and ears washed. So happy cats!

I very much am enjoying comparing our Savannah's behaviors - i can see how much alike my Ditto is with your HB. When Ditto doesn't eat all of her canned food and begins crying for who knows what I take food on my fingers and she enjoys eating off my fingers! I am probably beginning a bad habit with her by doing this but she enjoys it and I get her to eat a bit more. Fang is always ready to vacuum her plate clean so I have to be the warden putting her plate up high- she also enjoys eating her food in high places......As to the stress thing.,,, I need to go back in your narratives to read more as this is a theme with Ditto too. I randomly take her for "visits" to my senior neighbor. She trembles for a bit then seems to settle down - at least not visably trembling. I coo to her and pet her to assure her its okay.. The 1st time we visited this couple Ditto remained on the husband's lap and he continously affectionately rubbed her little head. She seemed to enjoy that and appeared comfortable, just a bit tense.. Husband fell in love with her cuddling. She pushed her head into his arm like she was hiding her head (?) My concern is I am wondering if I am unknowingly doing harm by stressing her. I am trying to show her that she is safe outside with me and I won't let her be harmed. I am hoping by repeat visits she will learn to relax more....Would appreciate you insight. Savannahs are a new breed to me so I am learning. I live in No Va? What state do you live in? Alison (Ditto and Fang)

 

[Moggieslegacy]

I also enjoy reading and sharing stories about our Kitties! I don't have a lot of experience with Savannahs, or even a lot of cats, as I have always had one at a time before. But I work out of my home, so I see a lot of my cats, bond with them deeply, and have more time than most to think about what it all might mean.

Talking about HB's quirks, I didn't really tell a completely balanced story as he is also very very attached to me. Before I got the yard and orchard surrounded with a cat proof fence - the fence and front of the house create about 500 feet of fence line including the house- HB's attachment to me was often obscured by his obsession to be out - and him seeing me predominantly as a means to an end. This was NOT solved by close to 1000 square feet of enclosed porches, and freestanding enclosures linked by walkways, all around the perimeter of the house, and he spent most of each day either watching me like a hawk in hopes I would take him out on a leash, or pacing. And it wasn't happy, going for a walk pacing, but how the heck to I get out of here pacing. I think he probably walked 2 to 5 miles a day going round and round the house. But his ?anxiety? love of the outdoors? does seem to have been solved by fencing in such a large area of yard he can never see he is surrounded by a fence. And it is like I have finally got to know him, apart from his distress at being contained. ( and thus mine too) I have been surprised that now he has a choice, he spends at least a couple hours a day inside hanging out beside me while I work. When he gets bored, he does this thing where he uses his paw to repetitively bang on things like an empty paper bag to let me know he wants something. I think he began this because I bring treats home in bags, but now the behavior has extended to whenever he wants something he thinks I can help with. Including not being sure how to get down out of an apple tree he climbed. Then he begins smacking the leaves with his paw repeatedly. Like he wants m to solve the problem for him!

He is often sitting on the steps, just waiting for me to walk out and do one of the many chores, and when I do, he joyfully gallops ahead of me and generally sticks close and seems absolutely delighted that I am out sharing the yard with him. He and WC both come in about 7 pm for supper and then they both conk out on the part of the couch my upper torso needs to go, apparently in happy anticipation of me coming to join them.

WC who always seemed contented with the enclosures, unless I took HB out on a leash without him, has surprised me because he is a lot more independent than HB and I usually need to go find him throughout the day. 1/2 my yard is quite wild and overgrown, and WC has made all these little nests in the tall grass and brush where I find him snoozing. It seems HB is way to paranoid to snooze outside. Even with me on the enclosed porch.

I have never before had "indoor only" cats, and adjusting to this, finding a way to do this that works for both me and the cats has been challenging. Especially as I live on a island without predators or a lot of human activity in Western Canada, and the local free roaming cats here seem no more likely to die in accidents than my human neighbours, and HB really really wanted out. Watching HB, I was put in a position where I needed to examine the reasons for this every day. Unlike almost every other domesticated animal, cats are not herd or pack animals, and do not respond by relaxing into a lower place in the hierarchy being dominated / bossed around by a human. I have come to believe that for some cats, which evolved as free roaming and historically were able to come and go as they pleased, being in a confined space, whether it is held in my arms or the house or an enclosure with no way out, means they are trapped and vulnerable. (Cats are fast and can out run most predators, in nature, being boxed in or cornered if how they got caught and killed) So even with an enriched environment a cat with this disposition may feel anxious about that and want out? Because I believe this, it seems holding HB in my arms when he was feeling trapped would just heighten his anxiety, and lead him to associate my arms with being trapped, so I would never do this... But on the other hand, providing cats with pleasant opportunities to socialize with neighbours sounds like a good thing. I worry about HB if anything ever happened to me, as he would find any other caregiver really really extremely stressful. So as long as Ditto seems to be enjoying a visit , this sounds good, but if she seems nervous I would lessen the hands on contact and increase the games and treats. For treats I use freeze dried raw chicken necks. They are healthy and also clean the teeth. But you would need a cat proof container as too much in one sitting might cause serious problems as the bone can be constipating.

Cats can occasionally be seriously injured by falling as little as 8 feet, as they do not always land safely, and there is no way I would want to risk a straight down fall from even 12 feet! And even in areas with few risks to outdoor cats, if a cat that has always been indoors accidentally gets out, and they have no outdoor experience or life skills they all too frequently they get seriously hurt, killed, or are never seen again. And a successful excursion can set up a situation where a cat will be difficult to keep happy, unless they are out. So even though I have limited information about your situation, based on what I know it seems it would be a good idea to enclose your porch ASAP! I could make some suggestions on how to do this if you are in a situation where attaching anything permanent is not possible!

 

[Ditto Girl 2019]

I also enjoy reading and sharing stories about our Kitties! I don't have a lot of experience with Savannahs, or even a lot of cats, as I have always had one at a time before. But I do live alone with my cats and work out of my home, so I see a lot of them, bond with them deeply, and have more time than most to think about what it all might mean.

Talking about HB's quirks, I didn't really tell a completely balanced story as he is also very very attached to me. Before I got the yard and orchard surrounded with a cat proof fence - the fence and front of the house create about 500 feet of fence line including the house- HB's attachment to me was often obscured by his obsession to be out - and him seeing me predominantly as a means to an end. This was NOT solved by over 1000 square feet of enclosed porches, and freestanding enclosures linked by walkways, all around the perimeter of the house, and he spent most of each day either watching me like a hawk in hopes I would take him out on a leash, or pacing. And it wasn't happy, going for a walk pacing, but how the heck to I get out of here pacing. I think he probably walked 2 to 5 miles a day going round and round the house. But his ?anxiety? love of the outdoors? does seem to have been solved by fencing in such a large area of yard he can never see he is surrounded by a fence. And it is like I have finally got to know him, apart from his distress at being contained. ( and thus mine too) I have been surprised that now he has a choice, he spends at least a couple hours a day inside hanging out beside me while I work. When he gets bored, he does this thing where he uses his paw to repetitively bang on things like an empty paper bag to let me know he wants something. I think he began this because I bring treats home in bags, but now the behavior has extended to whenever he wants something he thinks I can help with. Including not being sure how to get down out of an apple tree he climbed. Then he begins smacking the leaves with his paw repeatedly. Like he wants m to solve the problem for him!

He is often sitting on the steps, just waiting for me to walk out and do one of the many chores, and when I do, he joyfully gallops ahead of me and generally sticks close and seems absolutely delighted that I am out sharing the yard with him. He and WC both come in about 7 pm for supper and then they both conk out on the part of the couch my upper torso needs to go, apparently in happy anticipation of me coming to join them.

WC who always seemed contented with the enclosures, unless I took HB out on a leash without him, has surprised me because he is a lot more independent than HB and I usually need to go find him throughout the day. 1/2 my yard is quite wild and overgrown, and WC has made all these little nests in the tall grass and brush where I find him snoozing. It seems HB is way to paranoid to snooze outside. Even with me on the enclosed porch.

I have never before had "indoor only" cats, and adjusting to this, finding a way to do this that works for both me and the cats has been challenging. Especially as I live on a island without predators or a lot of human activity in Western Canada, and the local free roaming cats here seem no more likely to die in accidents than my human neighbours, and HB really really wanted out. Watching HB, I was put in a position where I needed to examine the reasons for this every day. Unlike almost every other domesticated animal, cats are not herd or pack animals, and do not respond by relaxing into a lower place in the hierarchy being dominated / bossed around by a human. I have come to believe that for some cats, which evolved as free roaming and historically were able to come and go as they pleased, being in a confined space, whether it is held in my arms or the house or an enclosure with no way out, means they are trapped and vulnerable. So even with an enriched environment a cat with this disposition may feel anxious about that and want out? Because I believe this, it seems holding HB in my arms when he was feeling trapped would just heighten his anxiety, and lead him to associate my arms with being trapped, so I would never do this... But on the other hand, providing cats with pleasant opportunities to socialize with neighbours sounds like a good thing. I worry about HB if anything ever happened to me, as he would find any other caregiver really really extremely stressful. So as long as Ditto seems to be enjoying a visit , this sounds good, but if she seems nervous I would lessen the hands on contact and increase the games and treats. For treats I use freeze dried raw chicken necks. They are healthy and also clean the teeth. But you would need a cat proof container as too much in one sitting might cause serious problems as the bone can be constipating.

Cats can occasionally be seriously injured by falling as little as 8 feet, as they do not always land safely, and there is no way I would want to risk a straight down fall from even 12 feet! And even in areas with few risks to outdoor cats, if a cat that has always been indoors accidentally gets out, and they have no outdoor experience or life skills they all too frequently they get seriously hurt, killed, or are never seen again. And a successful excursion can set up a situation where a cat will be difficult to keep happy, unless they are out. So even though I have limited information about your situation, based on what I know it seems it would be a good idea to enclose your porch ASAP! I could make some suggestions on how to do this if you are in a situation where attaching anything permanent is not possible!

That is the issue - I am a renter so enclosing my deck is not an option. Ditto looks through the glass door and paws it crying. I don't dare let Fang out either, though at his 13 yrs he is content to just lay in the heat under a bench. I try a often to engage Ditto in play and she and Fang have fun galloping up and down a long hall but for her, she needs more to be sane I feel. I have been looking online at those big exercise wheels and wonder if that would help her tap into that young energy. I have ordered all types of toys to only give them away - neither of them are interested except the laser thing gets Ditto going. Interesting about the chicken necks. I tried making my cat food from scratch and it is served raw. I have a big Mac Daddy juicer that literally grinds the bones of the chicken thighs and you add specific supplements. There is a woman on FB who religiously makes her own cat food and provides her recipies. Its healthier for sure. My cats did eat it but it seemed to be eating relucantly like when you serve children some new vegetable like eggplant for the first time and they are wary. That is exactly the way my kitties behaved, then when I re-introduced them to the Fancy Feast - they both were quick to polish it off. As an experiment, I baked one of the portions of ground chicken thigh cat food I made and it was actually quite delicious. Guess who is eating the remainder of the batch of home made cat food? Where you live sounds delightful. Here in No Va it is congested, rude, noisy. I am quite happy to be in isolation with this pandemic. I telework and I take breaks to interact with my kitties.

 

[Moggieslegacy]

Sorry but feeding cats cooked bone is really really dangerous!

ETA I wanted to post that as quick as possible... baked chicken bones change and make splinters that can puncture a cats tummy! People giving information on raw feeding should probably always make sure people know this...

 

[Moggieslegacy]

I think I could make some suggestions and direct you to some cat enclosure groups on facebook so you could find a way to put together an inexpensive, strong, portable enclosure for your porch. In the meantime making your cats wear a harness and leash when out there would be a lot safer. Unfortunately 2 cats on leashes require constant 100% almost humanly impossible eyes on supervision.So it is far from ideal.

Both me and my cats are very very lucky to live where I do, and sorry for you and anyone else who has to deal with congestion and rude people..

 

[Ditto Girl 2019]

Sorry but feeding cats cooked bone is really really dangerous!

ETA I wanted to post that as quick as possible... baked chicken bones change and make splinters that can puncture a cats tummy! People giving information on raw feeding should probably always make sure people know this...

I agree. My juicer pulverizes the bone into mush so it is no fear there. The woman on YouTube also uses a VitaMax which is also a very high performing pulverizer. The end product slowly comes out of a nozzle on the juicer and one can plainly see that it is all soft, no bit of anything.