Considering buying an F1 kitten - does anyone know this breeder?

[waitingforgeorge]

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Amaury arrives soon (Jaxx & Starki's kitten's half bro...or I believe ). Shango's already looking forward to this, I keep telling him he's going to get a new partner in crime!

he is a full brother just 5 months younger

 

[waitingforgeorge]

Not a breeder of these cats, but dogs and horses over te years and an interesting question raised by rascaldad was has there been a shift in pesonality of F1's from the early 80's to now. I would think yes. In the early years servals were bred to DSH and other breeds to develop into the breed we see now in the Savannah. I am sure as perdictable as the Serval behavior was and is now is as unpredictable as the females that had to be used to breed early on was. It seems that generational breeding of the Savannah's to create a consistent type and behavior/temperment in the females that are bred back to the Serval has helped greatly in the ability to produce a more consistant cat all around: ie type and temperment. As a breeder in general the female part of this equation is huge, especially when producing females.

Thanks Trish, that provided some insight, which is what I was looking for.
I talked to my breeder when I picked up the various kittens and was curios as to how they were quite successful in predicting behaviors and traits. Yes there are the exceptions, but they seem to have consistent results. From most of the responses from the breeders on this site, I am confident they are all actively pursuing excellence in not only looks but personality, of which I feel both are progressing very well with time.
I've had some wonderful DSH's over the years (and still have one!) but these savannahs are in a league of their own!

 

[Trish Allearz]

Not a breeder of these cats, but dogs and horses over te years and an interesting question raised by rascaldad was has there been a shift in pesonality of F1's from the early 80's to now. I would think yes. In the early years servals were bred to DSH and other breeds to develop into the breed we see now in the Savannah. I am sure as perdictable as the Serval behavior was and is now is as unpredictable as the females that had to be used to breed early on was. It seems that generational breeding of the Savannah's to create a consistent type and behavior/temperment in the females that are bred back to the Serval has helped greatly in the ability to produce a more consistant cat all around: ie type and temperment. As a breeder in general the female part of this equation is huge, especially when producing females.

Color me confused again

F1s are still being bred- to this day- and we are still using them in our breeding programs. My two F1s come from DSH to Serval backgrounds- and I know Shelby will chime in here too because at least one of her F1s comes from that exact same background- my girls are STICKY SWEET.

STICKY to the point of letting my one year old son in the enclosure WITH me with newborn kittens less then an hour old sweet.

So once again, I'm going to have to say- no, F1s have not changed throughout the years. F1 breeders, for the most part, don't NEED to toss unsocial, nasty cats in with their Servals. Instead, they raise, spoil and pamper whatever outcross they are going to use (permissible, nonpermissible, etc) and hope their Serval will breed to their cats.

Think of it- the math is sound... You raise a Serval- you can offer ANY female cat to him that you want. Why would you waste your time with an unsocial queen? It just doesn't make sense. I also think if the earlier F1s were cats with bad temperaments, this breed would never have found the supporters it has today. The breed flourishes because, as breeders, we SEE what a wonderful personality the Serval has and then how its reflected down in the lower generations as we selectively (at the F1 generation on down- you have to be selective as to what you breed to- you no longer have the ability to breed to almost anything- without losing type) breed for type.

For example- correct me if I'm wrong- your kitty came from Kim, correct? She has used DSHs in her program- I don't know what she is using currently, but my big lugabug sweet Simon came from her. He was an F1 from DSH to Serval breeding.

I'm pretty sure that made sense.

 

[Lori Greer]

Well I will chime in here. I firmly believe the temperament of any cat is most highly influenced by the interaction with people early on. I had an F1 who was hell on wheels and took 2 years for me to trust turning my back to her. I acquired her when she was 3 and she clearly had been a cattery cat all her life despite what I was told about her. My current F1 girl is a dream cat in both looks and temperament. I don't care what generation it is or even what breed. Without human handling and interaction a cat will revert to more instinctive or learned behavior. If the queen is not a social girl, and her behavior is the only example the kittens have, then they will exhibit less than ideal behavior with people as well. I made this mistake last year by allowing a not so nice queen to make the rules about handling her kittens - a mistake I won't repeat.

 

[waitingforgeorge]

No no, I'm not saying anything bad about early breeders VS breeders now. I'm just saying to the benifit of the breeding program there is now available a base of proven conformation and temperment females that took you breeders years to develop and now when those females are used in an F1 program it seems the outcome of the cross would be more predictable than it might have been in the past. Just the genetics before adding in the human socialization factor.

Color me confused again

F1s are still being bred- to this day- and we are still using them in our breeding programs. My two F1s come from DSH to Serval backgrounds- and I know Shelby will chime in here too because at least one of her F1s comes from that exact same background- my girls are STICKY SWEET.

STICKY to the point of letting my one year old son in the enclosure WITH me with newborn kittens less then an hour old sweet.

So once again, I'm going to have to say- no, F1s have not changed throughout the years. F1 breeders, for the most part, don't NEED to toss unsocial, nasty cats in with their Servals. Instead, they raise, spoil and pamper whatever outcross they are going to use (permissible, nonpermissible, etc) and hope their Serval will breed to their cats.

Think of it- the math is sound... You raise a Serval- you can offer ANY female cat to him that you want. Why would you waste your time with an unsocial queen? It just doesn't make sense. I also think if the earlier F1s were cats with bad temperaments, this breed would never have found the supporters it has today. The breed flourishes because, as breeders, we SEE what a wonderful personality the Serval has and then how its reflected down in the lower generations as we selectively (at the F1 generation on down- you have to be selective as to what you breed to- you no longer have the ability to breed to almost anything- without losing type) breed for type.

For example- correct me if I'm wrong- your kitty came from Kim, correct? She has used DSHs in her program- I don't know what she is using currently, but my big lugabug sweet Simon came from her. He was an F1 from DSH to Serval breeding.

I'm pretty sure that made sense.

 

[SV Dad]

No no, I'm not saying anything bad about early breeders VS breeders now. I'm just saying to the benifit of the breeding program there is now available a base of proven conformation and temperment females that took you breeders years to develop and now when those females are used in an F1 program it seems the outcome of the cross would be more predictable than it might have been in the past. Just the genetics before adding in the human socialization factor.

This is what I was driving at. Had enough high quality predictable mothers been introduced into the breeding pool, and has this paid off in outstanding F1's. I'm getting the picture that this has indeed occurred.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

I think genetics in terms of looks maybe...as using a Savannah female definitely pays off in the looks of the F1. But some used purebred Maine Coons with a Serval in the early days, those queens had very stable temperaments. And yes, Kim used Ragdoll crosses I think. I'm not sure I have seen that improvement in my own home over the years getting F1 kittens. We had F1 kittens at the World Cat Congress in Houston back in 2004, along with my 46% F3 (that many many folk firmly believe is a misregistered F1)... not a problem amongst them, their mothers were Bengals or Egyptian Maus. I was told after our presentation by the president of FIFe that if we'd only started with Savannahs there never would have been a hybrid ban...that's how impressed they were. So the great behavior has been there for quite some time.

I'm just not sure I know of too many old F1 Savannahs with behavioral issues. F1 Bengals yes, but the Bengal breeders learned the necessity of good socialization very early on, before Bengals were used with Servals I think. There are of course some breeders that don't do a good job, but those situations still happen. There are still people out there that get themselves a Serval and domestics without doing any research into how to do it "properly".

Realistically, if the early generations of Savannahs were too bad, I'd have seen a lot more of those F1s surrendered to Rescue. As I said, we had a 14 year old surrendered a couple years back ...but his behavior was stellar for an adult F1 rehomed for the first time at that age! We've rehomed a brown tabby and white F1 at ~ 5years old (so a domestic shorthair mother) that has done great...

I do think that having a Savannah mother is best in an F1, it adds a lot to the looks of an F1 to have the Serval come from both sides of the pedigree imho.

 

[Logan Fuller]

I think genetics in terms of looks maybe...as using a Savannah female definitely pays off in the looks of the F1. But some used purebred Maine Coons with a Serval in the early days, those queens had very stable temperaments. And yes, Kim used Ragdoll crosses I think. I'm not sure I have seen that improvement in my own home over the years getting F1 kittens. We had F1 kittens at the World Cat Congress in Houston back in 2004, along with my 46% F3 (that many many folk firmly believe is a misregistered F1)... not a problem amongst them, their mothers were Bengals or Egyptian Maus. I was told after our presentation by the president of FIFe that if we'd only started with Savannahs there never would have been a hybrid ban...that's how impressed they were. So the great behavior has been there for quite some time.

I'm just not sure I know of too many old F1 Savannahs with behavioral issues. F1 Bengals yes, but the Bengal breeders learned the necessity of good socialization very early on, before Bengals were used with Servals I think. There are of course some breeders that don't do a good job, but those situations still happen. There are still people out there that get themselves a Serval and domestics without doing any research into how to do it "properly".

Realistically, if the early generations of Savannahs were too bad, I'd have seen a lot more of those F1s surrendered to Rescue. As I said, we had a 14 year old surrendered a couple years back ...but his behavior was stellar for an adult F1 rehomed for the first time at that age! We've rehomed a brown tabby and white F1 at ~ 5years old (so a domestic shorthair mother) that has done great...

I do think that having a Savannah mother is best in an F1, it adds a lot to the looks of an F1 to have the Serval come from both sides of the pedigree imho.

Hi Brigitte, the kitten I am going to be adopting is actually a cross between a serval and a purebred Maine Coon. Have you personally seen any cats from this pairing before? I'd be interested to hear what you thought.

 

[shelby]

Logan, I am happy you found a baby;>) Pictutres ///PLEASE;>) LOL

 

[Logan Fuller]

Logan, I am happy you found a baby;>) Pictutres ///PLEASE;>) LOL

Soon!! He's going to be born sometime in the next two days :D