Meet Franco

[Moggieslegacy]

I have been hesitating to reply to this, as before my 2, I have always just lived with one cat at a time, so have little personal experience ...

But as my 2 started out enjoying each others company, but now have a strained relationship, I have also wondered if they both might have a better chance of living their best lives, if WC was in a home where he was the only cat. They don't fight, but WC's rambunctious attempts to play usually scare HB, which results in HB running away, hissing at WC, and even growling if he feels cornered. I work out of my home, so I am usually here to supervise them, and can discharge WC's Savannah batteries if he starts over amping, but I notice HB often avoids going out in the yard when WC is there because he doesn't like being so aggressively chased. Luckily inside the house, WC has mostly figured out when to give up and back off. But they only occasionally seem to enjoy each other and mostly their relationship is strained, though with clicker training WC has gotten better at learning to read signals. Both mine and HB's, and when he isn't feeling crazy, he really tries to respect HB's hypersensitivity. But WC has always seemed like he would love the world to revolve around him, and only him. Unlike HB, I have never felt like WC enjoys the company of other cats... and if I knew of a home that was entirely stable, which would be as good or better than what I could offer him... I might consider that maybe in the long term, this would be best. Because WC and HB's relationship is not ideal, and even though they never actually fight, things between them are often tense.

In my neighbourhood, other than HB and WC, people's family cats are all free roaming, and they sometimes choose a different family than the one that "owns" them. There is a very beautiful Bengal up the road who didn't like living with a couple large Savannahs, and he insisted on living with another neighbour with no other cats, he repeatedly managed to escape when locked in, and he was eventually allowed to choose his own home. And an ordinary but much loved orange cat decided he prefered a family with kids. Being a small community, people know where their cat has moved and can continue to visit and check they are OK.... but given a choice, (and cats evolved being free to choose, territorial by nature, and easily stressed) cats often choose differently than we would. My cats are not free roaming, so they don't have the opportunity to find the home that they think is the best for for them...But I am pretty sure, if he could, given a choice, (and assuming he survived, which given his personality is doubtful,) WC would probably find a castle where he could be King, and just drop by for visits and to eat all HB's food. (and super shy, neurotic, conflict avoiding HB would end up chased to the other end of the island- so this is not an option)

Anyways... I guess my point is, even if you get past Franco wanting to kill Vito, I wonder if they will ever actually get to a place where they enjoy each other company, and as I have wondered for WC and HB, is this really their best chance of living their best lives...? It can be a really really tough one, but as long as you are doing what you believe is best for your cats... it is the best you can do!

 

[Moggieslegacy]

Oh... that was so long I forgot to add that CBD supplements for cats might be another option that could be given long term. I read a comment in a cat group about a cat with an anxiety related behaviour problem who mentioned trying gabapentin, but it turned their cat into a zombie... the CBD solved the problem without damaging their cats quality of life.

 

[Vito]

I have been hesitating to reply to this, as before my 2, I have always just lived with one cat at a time, so have little personal experience ...

But as my 2 started out enjoying each others company, but now have a strained relationship, I have also wondered if they both might have a better chance of living their best lives, if WC was in a home where he was the only cat. They don't fight, but WC's rambunctious attempts to play usually scare HB, which results in HB running away, hissing at WC, and even growling if he feels cornered. I work out of my home, so I am usually here to supervise them, and can discharge WC's Savannah batteries if he starts over amping, but I notice HB often avoids going out in the yard when WC is there because he doesn't like being so aggressively chased. Luckily inside the house, WC has mostly figured out when to give up and back off. But they only occasionally seem to enjoy each other and mostly their relationship is strained, though with clicker training WC has gotten better at learning to read signals. Both mine and HB's, and when he isn't feeling crazy, he really tries to respect HB's hypersensitivity. But WC has always seemed like he would love the world to revolve around him, and only him. Unlike HB, I have never felt like WC enjoys the company of other cats... and if I knew of a home that was entirely stable, which would be as good or better than what I could offer him... I might consider that maybe in the long term, this would be best. Because WC and HB's relationship is not ideal, and even though they never actually fight, things between them are often tense.

In my neighbourhood, other than HB and WC, people's family cats are all free roaming, and they sometimes choose a different family than the one that "owns" them. There is a very beautiful Bengal up the road who didn't like living with a couple large Savannahs, and he insisted on living with another neighbour with no other cats, he repeatedly managed to escape when locked in, and he was eventually allowed to choose his own home. And an ordinary but much loved orange cat decided he prefered a family with kids. Being a small community, people know where their cat has moved and can continue to visit and check they are OK.... but given a choice, (and cats evolved being free to choose, territorial by nature, and easily stressed) cats often choose differently than we would. My cats are not free roaming, so they don't have the opportunity to find the home that they think is the best for for them...But I am pretty sure, if he could, given a choice, (and assuming he survived, which given his personality is doubtful,) WC would probably find a castle where he could be King, and just drop by for visits and to eat all HB's food. (and super shy, neurotic, conflict avoiding HB would end up chased to the other end of the island- so this is not an option)

Anyways... I guess my point is, even if you get past Franco wanting to kill Vito, I wonder if they will ever actually get to a place where they enjoy each other company, and as I have wondered for WC and HB, is this really their best chance of living their best lives...? It can be a really really tough one, but as long as you are doing what you believe is best for your cats... it is the best you can do!

Hi Moggiesnewmom
Great post, can't say I disagree at all, some cats are just not compatible no matter what us humans try to achieve. At the end of the day it's about their happiness and welfare isn't it, despite how we would like things to be.
We are on day 2 of using the gabapentin and to be honest I really don't see any difference in his demeanor, hes certainly not acting doped up at all which is good, not prepared to zombify him, the 50mg doses are well spaced out and not given all at once, if anything he has been extra luvvy today so obviously the meds are doing something. We shall take each day as it comes and see what happens. Another problem is the fact that Vito is super wary of him now, understandable under the circumstances. Hadn't considered CBD supplements , would prefer to research that in some detail. Thanks for your input ,it is appreciated.

 

[WitchyWoman]

We've actually been doing the scent transferal method for quite few weeks now,

Can you clarify -- are you rubbing your scent on each cat or are you transferring the cats' scents on each of them? If it's the latter, I suggest trying the former -- rub your scent via individual cloths for each cat on each cat daily. Be careful not to mix up the cloths.

 

[Vito]

Can you clarify -- are you rubbing your scent on each cat or are you transferring the cats' scents on each of them? If it's the latter, I suggest trying the former -- rub your scent via individual cloths for each cat on each cat daily. Be careful not to mix up the cloths.

Ahhhh, I've been using the same cloth, so will start off with a new cloth for each cat see how that goes.

 

[Vito]

Are we seeing a breakthrough ?? Vito stopped hissing at Franco and whilst Franco was in the playpen, he was passing toys out to Vito who in turn was chucking them back. Complete turn around. Tomorrow we are going to take both boys outside on their harnesses and see what the reaction is, baby steps!!!

 

[Moggieslegacy]

That sounds hopeful! A couple days ago I accidentally stumbled on a way to get neurotically shy HB feeling safe enough to play with overly rambunctious WC. A cat sized hole was gnawed in the upper side of a box. Turning the box upside down, with the flaps spread out so they lay flat on the floor, and the gnawed hole created an entrance, like to a cave. The box also has a small opening in the bottom, which becomes the roof of the cave when flipped upside down. HB and WC both love it when they go into the box and I slide wand toys under the flaps, which they then grab at from inside the box. But those little WC paws appearing from under the flaps are just irresistible to HB, so he joins in the game smacking the paws, and pouncing on the box. I was thinking of Vito and Franco while we were doing this, as the side of the box could maybe be slide up to a playpen, giving the two an opportunity to play, but not fight? We also have a ripple rug I put away for a bit, as it got boring, but this also seemed to encourage interactive play. So do random piles of propped cushions and crumpled paper and bags and boxes...

 

[WitchyWoman]

Are we seeing a breakthrough ??

Fingers crossed!!! I'll be on pins and needles for an update after the walk.

 

[maryannb6843]

My Savannah,Puma, was the first cat I had in 30yrs who’s claws I wasn’t able to clip. I had no choice at the time except taking him to vet because I couldn’t control him and he would than bite. We started when he was very young hoping he would outgrow the aggressive behavior to touching his feet. It didn’t get better as he got older but got worse. They physically restrained him but thankfully because there were two techs they could clip his claws quickly. One time I asked the vet if I could hold him while she tried to trim his claws. He got so stressed out he had an involuntary bowel movement. She said that was a very significant sign of how bad he was stressed out and it worried her. That was when she suggested giving him Gabapentin 2 hrs before I get to the office. She told me to give him 50 mg which did nothing So I called her and we increased the dose to 100. It is very hard to overdose a cat on Gabapentin as it has a wide safety margin and is metabolized fairly quick. In 24 hrs it totally out of the cats system when doses over as high as 350 mg are administered. Being an anesthetist I knew if this was a medication the vet would give out to owners to administer and needed no monitoring it had to be pretty safe. Dose is also weight dependent. I used this on for a long car trip and my cats have varying weights and the doses for each was different. The vet administered the med before we left and my smallest cat, Singapura 6 lbs took only 25 mg, and my largest, Maine Coon 22lbs 75mg, my Savannah at 14lbs took 50mg. I just wanted very light sedation to lull them into sleeping on a 4 hr car trip. I use the liquid form and administer it with a syringe. It worked out perfectly for the trip and on arrival they were wide awake with no signs of sedation. My vet said it is given acc. to the effect desired on cats in terms of sedation. For example one time we had to give my Savannah 200mg for a vet visit to do annual exam and blood work. It actually was just enough with no need to restrain him and in a few hours he was his rambunctious self again. There are very few reports of overdoses with this medication at most they will become a little sleepier and uncoordinated in terms of activity. I judge the dose to give him watching the effect of the lower dose over the first hour than adjust accordingly.
I still would rather not administer a medication just to clip his claws so I began using a calming collar which is infused with pheromones to calm and soothe cats in conjunction with the Gabapentin hoping it would potentiate the effects of the drug and I could titer the dose down until hopefully he eventually will get used to having me clip his claws with just the collar. Presently he’s allowing me to get through one foot using 75 mg before I have to resort to a towel to restrain him.
He has bitten me pretty bad at times, once requiring medical treatment, but I still have hope.
I usually wait until he starts biting his nails as a sign he needs them clipped rather than a set amount of time in between visits to vet as before. But I don’t worry too much about the medication. The possibility of the negative effects of stress far outweighs the possibility of an negative reaction
to the Gabapentin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Vito]

My Savannah,Puma, was the first cat I had in 30yrs who’s claws I wasn’t able to clip. I had no choice at the time except taking him to vet because I couldn’t control him and he would than bite. We started when he was very young hoping he would outgrow the aggressive behavior to touching his feet. It didn’t get better as he got older but got worse. They physically restrained him but thankfully because there were two techs they could clip his claws quickly. One time I asked the vet if I could hold him while she tried to trim his claws. He got so stressed out he had an involuntary bowel movement. She said that was a very significant sign of how bad he was stressed out and it worried her. That was when she suggested giving him Gabapentin 2 hrs before I get to the office. She told me to give him 50 mg which did nothing So I called her and we increased the dose to 100. It is very hard to overdose a cat on Gabapentin as it has a wide safety margin and is metabolized fairly quick. In 24 hrs it totally out of the cats system when doses over as high as 350 mg are administered. Being an anesthetist I knew if this was a medication the vet would give out to owners to administer and needed no monitoring it had to be pretty safe. Dose is also weight dependent. I used this on for a long car trip and my cats have varying weights and the doses for each was different. The vet administered the med before we left and my smallest cat, Singapura 6 lbs took only 25 mg, and my largest, Maine Coon 22lbs 75mg, my Savannah at 14lbs took 50mg. I just wanted very light sedation to lull them into sleeping on a 4 hr car trip. I use the liquid form and administer it with a syringe. It worked out perfectly for the trip and on arrival they were wide awake with no signs of sedation. My vet said it is given acc. to the effect desired on cats in terms of sedation. For example one time we had to give my Savannah 200mg for a vet visit to do annual exam and blood work. It actually was just enough with no need to restrain him and in a few hours he was his rambunctious self again. There are very few reports of overdoses with this medication at most they will become a little sleepier and uncoordinated in terms of activity. I judge the dose to give him watching the effect of the lower dose over the first hour than adjust accordingly.
I still would rather not administer a medication just to clip his claws so I began using a calming collar which is infused with pheromones to calm and soothe cats in conjunction with the Gabapentin hoping it would potentiate the effects of the drug and I could titer the dose down until hopefully he eventually will get used to having me clip his claws with just the collar. Presently he’s allowing me to get through one foot using 75 mg before I have to resort to a towel to restrain him.
He has bitten me pretty bad at times, once requiring medical treatment, but I still have hope.
I usually wait until he starts biting his nails as a sign he needs them clipped rather than a set amount of time in between visits to vet as before. But I don’t worry too much about the medication. The possibility of the negative effects of stress far outweighs the possibility of an negative reaction
to the Gabapentin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks very much for your post maryann, extremely interesting, it's evident that any Savannah's on gabapentin have varied tolerance to it, regardless of weight etc..