One stressed mommy

[Patti]

I'm sure you're relieved to have some peace restored to your household, but you may need to prepare yourself for this to be a long-term situation. I'm curious as to why you gave Bucky the run of the house and sequestered the other cats away? It almost seems as though you are rewarding Bucky for his aggression - he has now been able to 'get rid of' the other cats, who also, it sounds like feel as though they are being punished. I have had cats that have simply hated each other for whatever reason and needed to be permanently separated. However, if you add more vertical space you may be able to avoid future conflicts if they all have enough personal space to be able to avoid each other.

As for the litter robot, I have no idea what Marilyn has against them, but my recommendation is don't try to fix something that's not broken. If the cats like the litter robot and use it faithfully, trying to get them to change could actually create litterbox issues!

 

[l.i.t]

Hi, Patti,

I kind of feel the way you do about Bucky having the whole house - but it was Marilyn who suggested this arrangement. I think she felt that our bedroom would be a 'Bucky free zone' and that the other cats would feel safer in here with our smells, etc. I guess the other way would have been tough, too, as Lotto and Toot have slept with us since they were both kittens. So maybe there wasn't a 'good' solution?

I don't think we have enough room in the house to live like this long term. We have a 3br house, but already we are tripping over ourselves trying to get in/out doors without the cats getting into the wrong rooms. I know for a fact my husband wouldn't live like that.

Marilyn voiced that she thought if Bucky had a second 'resource' in my husband... And that with 'incompatible behavior' that Bucky could alter his social adjustment. One thing that worries me, though, is Bucky's inability to be distracted when he's with the other cats. Today, he and Lotto were both sniffing under the door. We tried distracting Bucky with chicken (his favorite treat) and by tossing one of his stuffed mice down beside him - he didn't bat an eye.

I'm trying to do nearly everything as Marilyn indicated, because I want/need to know that we tried everything we could, if it doesn't work out. And if it does work out, then all the better.

And to be honest, a part of me feels really really guilty falling more in love with Bucky - while knowing that if it doesn't work out, we will have to rehome him :-( I will be so sad, but the thought of traumatizing him makes me ill .

I guess I'm just sick about this. My breeder is wonderful, and both Lotto and Bucky came from her. I think this is 'new' for her also. She is at a loss for what to tell us, too.

But I'll keep trying - and we'll have supervised re-introductions so maybe we will get a better sense of what will happen. The other day, while I was out of the house, my husband said Lotto got out of the bedroom twice. The first time, Bucky immediately jumped on his back. The second time, Bucky rolled over and exposed his stomach to Lotto. Not sure what to make of that. And I suppose there's always the prozak option....

 

[l.i.t]

Re:the litter robot, I think I will keep one - Bucky does OK with the bins, and Toot seems to be peeing in the bin, but pooping in the robot. Lotto is still a robot kind of guy ;-) old habits die hard.

Marilyn was concerned that litter box problems would develop if we kept the robots. But if we keep one and change the other (as well as add 2 more litter box bins) the cats will have a choice, which I think is a good compromise.

 

[Patti]

I think Prozac is a really good option if nothing else works out in the end, so please keep it in mind as an alternative.

 

[admin]

I have no idea why Marilyn is against litter robots... I agree with Patti and disagree with Marilyn... And if you have been using them all these years, please continue to do so. I have two litter robots, my cats love them and I would not give them up... Sometimes you need to also do what you think is best... I do not think giving them up is the best advice...

I do think you should have a couple of litterboxes besides the robots though... I do... My cats prefer the litter robot... Even Ixas, who is 19 pounds!

Sounds like you are doing everything possible and perhaps just give things some time... And I agree with Patti about prozac or some other medication similar...

 

[l.i.t]

Well, we now have one litter robot still in our laundry room (open connection with MB), as well as a clear bin - a clear bin in the living room (soon to be 2 bins, but I need more Kitty litter first!) and one back in Bucky's bedroom (guest room) where we put him when we give the other cats a run of the house. Hopefully that will suffice for the time being.

We have tried to 'enrich' the environment with ez faucets, tornado food dispenser, play buckets of water in the bathroom, chicken broth ice cubes (with pieces of chicken in them), scavenger hunts for chicken pieces (Bucky is NOT good at these at all), more scratching posts, and a scratcher with the rolling ball around it. That amongst all the wand toys, balls, mice, feathers, etc that we already had. So far, Bucky will play with some of them when we are not around but still prefers the humans, if present. He has not caught onto fetch, but was learning today about clicker training to get on the placemat. We also have 3 additional cat trees (to go with our 2 and 2 high bookcases) as well as one of the 6' aluminum cat walls with boxes and steps. We are also building a catwalk to go from the window sill on one wall to the bookshelf (a third) on the adjacent wall. There will be more vertical space than anyone could ask for.

The other cats are doing well in the room, but not so well with the clicker training. Lotto just isn't food motivated at all... And I can't get Toot to step on the placemat even once. She keeps going around it or jumping over it LOL! We will keep trying, though.

Lotto got out of his 'sanctuary' room yesterday, and I thought I'd see what happened (armed with the foam board to break things up if needed). It took Bucky about 3 minutes before jumping on Lotto, which he did under the bed so I couldn't use the foam board to break it up. So when I opened the door to the sanctuary room, Lotto went back in.

Today, Lotto wanted out of the room, so I though we could try again. Today was 'odd'. At first, Bucky didn't notice, so Lotto got to sniff around. One Bucky saw Lotto, he bounced up to him sideways and went right by him. Then he came back, put an arm around Lotto's neck and licked him (?). He continued to run back and forth by Lotto, just bouncing around... And then finally chased Lotto and got on his back - BUT didn't continue to hurt or chase him. I then was able to distract him with some food and clicker training. But when we were finished, he kept chasing Lotto around (in the bad way) and I finally opened the door and called Lotto back to the sanctuary room.

So I'm not really sure what to make of all that.

I AM, however, having a difficult time getting my husband involved. He was supposed to be in charge of feeding the cats - for instance, we give Bucky a wet cat food treat before bed at night.... BUT my husband isn't consistent with it ("he won't care if we miss a night") so I end up doing it. He also won't consistently clicker train ("I don't see the point - what is that going to do for him? ") so I do some of that, as well. And yet he says he's become attached to Bucky and doesn't want him to be removed. So I'm just trying to keep thing as consistent as I can without doing it all....

For those of you who have tried antidepressants, did you do Paxil or Prosac? My breeder tried Paxil on one of her cats who was anxious, but saw no result. Also, how in the world did you pill them? We have tried to pill Bucky twice after one of his vet visits (for pica) and we could not hold him, even with the taco. Any ideas? He will not eat it when hidden in a pocket or food. Just leaves it then tries to bury the food.

We'll, that's our update. It's only been a week, so I'm hoping for some progress as time goes on. Thanks, again, for all the support!

 

[WitchyWoman]

Sounds like a huge step forward when Bucky play danced near Lotto the 2nd time Lotto came out of the room. As far as the antidepressant, I chose Prozac simply because there was more material on it available to read. After I discussed it with my vet, who had not heard about its use in cats, she found an article in one of her veterinary journals about its use and effectiveness in several types of personality disorders in cats. So we tried that first and it worked. If for some reason the Prozac stops working, we'll try one of the others and see how that goes.

I use a pill gun. It was a test of wills for awhile but now that Taji has been on the drug for several months, he's become used to me administering it. He still doesn't like it, but he doesn't fight me anymore. He's a small cat. I put him on the kitchen counter, his butt tucked into my armpit, apply pressure on his jaw to open his mouth, insert the pill gun and shoot, so to speak. I butter the capsule first so it doesn't stick in his throat.

You can try wrapping Bucky in a towel or try one of those calming jackets http://petsupplies.about.com/od/cats/fr/A-Review-Of-The-Thundershirt-For-Cats.htm

Does scruffing him work? Fortunately all of my cats still respond to scruffing.

 

[l.i.t]

I like how you worded that - 'play danced'.... I wish I knew if it was progress or not, since Bucky would sometimes do the same thing before we separated the cats. When Lotto and Bucky were having' fun' play sessions where both cats seemed to enjoying things (before Bucky would kick it up a notch), the dancing and running by Lotto and just barely touching him was something Bucky would do. And I know that isn't territorial b/c it's how Lotto and Tootie play ;-)

I think we will go with the Prozac if we can actually pill him. I might try the swaddling jacket.... And maybe, like Taji, Bucky will get used to it and fight less. If there is one thing Bucky HATES, it is being restrained. We used to scruff him, but unless he is held in the air (which I think he is too heavy for), he just twists his hind legs and scratches us - or uses his front claws - he will even bite us. Hey - maybe I can clicker train him to be swaddled or burritoed! Hmm.... I think I just made up a word. And I'll take your advice about the butter - thank you so much!

 

[WitchyWoman]

There are some videos on youtube that show people/vets using clothes pins and binder clips to simulate scruffing and the cats being compliant. I tried one of the binder clips on one of my own fat rolls and it hurt like the dickens so I decided it wasn't a good option for any of my cats. But maybe think about the clothes pins. If he relaxes to scruffing and the clothes pins work, you have 2 hands free for the pilling. Good luck.

 

[l.i.t]

We let Lotto out again, today, and for about 10 minutes, Bucky didn't attack him... BUT he also wouldn't leave him alone. So Lotto hissed and growled and swatted (Lot is pretty good at holding grudges).

It occurred to me that 90% of the times that Bucky is around the other cats, that he cannot/does not leave them alone. At what approximate age do kittens start doing their own thing instead of being obsessed with the other cats? Or is this just a Bucky thing?

It just seems to me that if Bucky were to just do his own thing occasionally, it would obviously help - because Lotto is clearly stressed even when he is not being attacked. I am aware, however, that Lotto chooses to come out rather than just hide in the room.