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One stressed mommy

WitchyWoman

Admin
Staff member
I'm thinking it'll happen when the other cats convince Bucky that there are boundaries. Then again, Bucky doesn't seem the sort to respect boundaries, at least not yet.

All I can add is from my experience with Atticus. About 2 weeks ago, the other 3 repealed his kitten get-out-of-jail-free card and vociferously laid down the law along with claws and teeth at full throttle. Everyone came out of that training exercise with a few boo boos. He is no longer allowed to jump on them from high places and squash them into the floor, he is no longer allowed to jump on their backs and chew their necks or use them as hockey pucks. The result is that he only engages in the unwanted behaviors 25% of the time instead of 100%. Part is due to him maturing and respecting the new rules set by the other cats and part is due to the very forceful way the other cats said "enough is enough."
 

Patti

Admin
Staff member
There are several different antidepressant/anxiolytic agents available, and just like with people, different cats respond differently to different agents. I remember several years ago I had a cat that I tried these on and think I went through about three different brands until finding the one that worked for her (sorry, can't remember which one that was). I would just start with one, give it a good 2-3 weeks to work, and if it doesn't try a different antidepressant.

As for actually getting it down him, I believe that you should be able to get Prozac, and probably the alternative agents as well, in liquid form. You can try shooting this down Bucky's throat or try mixing it in with some of his favorite food (you should also be able to get it compounded to taste like chicken, tuna, or other cat-friendly flavor). I have used the binder clips on some of my most 'resistant' cats as a scruffing technique and most times it works great, although sometimes a cat will try to fight it. The biggest advantage to using a binder clip (I use the large 2" long and 3/4" depth, and use two lengthwise along the neck and shoulders on my big guys) is that it gives you two free hands to work with the cat.
 

NikkiA

Site Supporter
Jarvis hates being scruffed but loves treats. By picking him up and holding him for a short time every day, we eventually got him to stop biting and scratching.

When we need to restrain him (like when he stepped in maple syrup Mickey knocked over) we will sometimes have one of us pick him up, the other grab front paws, and then do whatever necessitated the picking up. We don't restrain him unless we really need to. We do pick him up every day and carry him to another room in the house to give him a treat- I don't know if this will work with Bucky, but it has helped me a lot when i need to pick Jarvis up without him struggling. He now associates being picked up with getting a treat.

Hang in there with Budky.
 

l.i.t

Site Supporter
Wow...has it been 10 days already?

The good news is that all cats are completely destressed courtesy of the separation. Lotto is his old self, Bucky is happy, and Tootie is content. We have been trying to give Lotto and Tootie time in the rest of the house, while shutting Bucky in a back guestroom for a couple of hours - just so everyone has time in the main house. Lotto likes to come out and roam for about 10 minutes, and then goes into the bedroom again. Tootie pretty much just chooses to stay in the bedroom. If Lotto opens the bedroom door and wants to come into the house when Bucky is around, we let him do it of his own accord. Things had kind of settled into a routine - and encounters between Bucky and Lotto varied from Bucky following Lotto around from behind, to the usual chase and jump on Lotto's back (with me hobbling around on crutches with a posterboard to put between them when I can catch them LOL)

I have been updating Marilyn as we go - she feels we are making progress with the destressing. Of course, my husband and I are anxious to have our house back (post surgical care is a bit difficult when trying to keep cats out of the convalescing room :paw:

Three nights ago, in the middle of the night, Lotto apparently saw an animal outside out bedroom window (likely a fox or coyote - maybe a deer) and got VERY upset. He was walking back and forth over the bed, and trying to open the bedroom door to get in the main house. I was half asleep and, not knowing what was happening, reached out to rub him, and he nipped me. Nothing hard or painful - just letting me know he was upset. He managed to get the bedroom door open, so I jumped up, hobbled out and grabbed the posterboard, as I knew Bucky would be in the main house. Lotto ran around the house trying to figure out how to get outside, and hissed at Bucky the entire time (which might have been a good thing??? who knows). Anyhow, he continued to be agitated for another day and a half, but is back to normal now.

Ever since that night, Lotto has no interest in coming out of the bedroom when Bucky is around. If he comes out, he will turn right back around and go back into the bedroom. He *will* come out still when Bucky is in the back guest room.

Sometimes it feels to me as if we are backsliding. I agree we've made progress with the destressing, and that is a GOOD thing. But now that I'm able to put some weight on my leg again, my husband has gone back to having me feed the cats, clicker train, etc. The one good aspect is that while I was down, he and Bucky formed a stronger relationship. That being said, it apparently did not affect Bucky's behavior with Lotto.

I have been keeping their breeder in the loop, as she has been very helpful and understanding. She is very reputable, and I asked what she would do in this situation. She felt that it might not be a bad idea, if things didn't improve in the next week or so, to consider having Lotto and Bucky live together in a room for a week or so. She said that is what she does sometimes with her 'catty intact females'. She said that Bucky would be the first cat (without a medical condition) she had that didn't at least work things out with the other cats in a household. She also feels that if Bucky were going to mortally wound Lotto, there would have been injuries before when they were together. She thinks that Lotto just needs to get fed up enough to give him a good whacking.

She suggested giving them a couple of hiding places and using a babycam in case things do get too rough...but to minimize human contact during that time.

I'm somewhat torn as to what to do. I keep forgetting to call the vet about Prozac (post-anesthesia brain)....but we now have a 10ft high homebuilt catwalk with stairs, 5 cat towers, 6 scratching posts (in addition to the cat tower sisal legs) 4 litterboxes (2 in bedroom, 2 in main house), every possible puzzle toy, ball chasing track toy, chicken broth ice cubes, water pools, and ez faucet, mice, wand toys, boxes, paper, tunnels, stuffed animals, balls etc. Bucky still gets bored....Lotto won't stay in the main house long enough to play with much or explore.

Part of me wants to try what the breeder suggested. But then again, I want to try Marilyn's way also - but it seems a bit difficult with my husband not really holding up his end of it.

Anyhow, that's our update. The surgery went well, but I'll have to go back for a partial knee replacement (at 39 year old :eek:), as I have no cartilage or meniscus left. Alas, I feel fortunate that is an option as opposed to a total knee.

Thanks, everyone for listening. Sometimes it helps to just get it all out :)

L
 

Carykd7kau

Reincarnated cat Moderator
Sweetie, you are way too young for that kind of knee problem. So very sorry you have to go thru that. Hoping Bucky and Lotto SOON come to terms. ( Actually, I know how you feel about not wanting to put them in a room together... I have a similar situation wit my Kilifi and Azidi. )
Good luck to you L. :)
 

WitchyWoman

Admin
Staff member
She felt that it might not be a bad idea, if things didn't improve in the next week or so, to consider having Lotto and Bucky live together in a room for a week or so. She said that is what she does sometimes with her 'catty intact females'. She said that Bucky would be the first cat (without a medical condition) she had that didn't at least work things out with the other cats in a household. She also feels that if Bucky were going to mortally wound Lotto, there would have been injuries before when they were together. She thinks that Lotto just needs to get fed up enough to give him a good whacking.

I think it's a bad idea at this point in time. From everything you've said and Marilyn corroborated about Bucky's behavior, I don't see them coming to terms by forcing them together. I think it's quite possible that serious wounds can occur. Lotto could be so traumatized by the encounter that he'll be forever changed. There was nothing stopping him from giving Bucky a good whacking when they had access to each other and he didn't do it.

When the destressing progresses more, maybe you can try it. I think you shouldn't try it unless Bucky is on Prozac if you don't want to wait however long it takes to do things Marilyn's way. In that case, I'd also recommend a minor remodel job at your house. In whatever room you can spare, build a temporary large enclosure with two compartments. The enclosure can be made of chicken wire and wood except the floor needs to be solid. Put one cat in each side with a litter box, toys, bed, water and leave them together for longer and longer periods. Feed them in their compartments. When it appears they are comfortable being that close and interacting through the wire, let them out in the room together for short periods of time. You can buy this sort of enclosure but it may be cheaper to build it.
 

l.i.t

Site Supporter
The catwalk....almost finished
Sweetie, you are way too young for that kind of knee problem. So very sorry you have to go thru that. Hoping Bucky and Lotto SOON come to terms. ( Actually, I know how you feel about not wanting to put them in a room together... I have a similar situation wit my Kilifi and Azidi. )
Good luck to you L. :)
Thanks so much. I hope your little ones work it out as well. There is little worse than discord in the family!
 

l.i.t

Site Supporter
Kanadian,

It would be WONDERFUL if we could do that! At this point, my husband may kill me if I ask to put a cat door in our bedroom door. It also goes against what Marilyn said... Not to let them start chasing, etc (which is already near impossible with them running, under beds, etc). Lotto is able to open our bedroom door on his own. We had been blocking it, but when he destressed, we started letting him come in if he wanted to. I kept an eye on him when he was ready to go back in the bedroom and would open the door for him (so bucky couldn't slip in behind him).

Deb,

I think I will try the prozac and pray. We just constructed a catwalk, and if I were to suggested an enclosure, he might kill me for that, too LOL. I like the idea, but wonder if it would stress Lotto out and associate that with me (me putting them in there every time)?

I don't know. Marilyn said Lotto now has displaced aggression and that he actually fears Bucky. I'm honestly not sure what changed. We often have foxes and rabbits around the house... Lotto growled only once at a fox in the past and ran around the house. But never any of the other times we've seen them. She also says it's bad to have other animals outside of the house - which, of course, we can't change - and has never been an issue before.

It feels like such a roller coaster - one minute having hope and the next minute not. I know I am trying so hard, and it just seems to get worse. I wish my husband would do more, but I'm probably lucky he has even done what he has.

I can't help but think it has hurt to let bucky have the whole house. Like Lotto lost his roost.

I'll keep following Marilyn's direction. And I'll get Prozac. And pray.

I just wish I understood why Lotto got more fearful - it mostly seemed like he was just 'hissing' Bucky away b/c he had more pressing matters (like getting the outside animal).

I suppose it doesn't matter. What is... Is. Thanks for all of the support. In the meantime, I'll just keep swimming... Just keep swimming
 

WitchyWoman

Admin
Staff member
I sure wish there was something substantial we could do to help you. You are doing an admirable job and deserve a lot of credit for trying all the things you have done to make things work. There are many people who would have tossed Bucky to the Fates long ago. Big hugs to you for all that you've done.

Something you said above made that cartoon lightbulb go off over my head. From what you said about Lotto's reaction to animals outside, it could be that 1) Bucky's reaction to Lotto is because Lotto is a bit unbalanced on the territorial side; 2) both cats need medication. You might consider the option to try Prozac with Lotto also if his behavior stays fearful/territorial and Bucky's undergoes that magical transformation we're all hoping for.

Remember that my Taji also had territorial issues with outside animals and took it out on whichever cat was the closest. Although his primary target was Maliik, he didn't hesitate to tear into Juba. You may have 2 different issues going on with 2 different cats, or you may have only 1 cat that has issues. Either way, I'm keeping all my digits crossed that the Prozac helps Bucky.

Again hugs, hugs, hugs.

P.S. Tell hubby that the witch says he either gets on board to share the load or he should buy you a very very expensive piece of jewelry to compensateWitchey
 
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