One stressed mommy

[Patti]

I have to agree with Deborah - it's very possible that Lotto is also overreacting to both the outdoor animals and Bucky inside. It wouldn't hurt to try them both on medication and see if, eventually, you could wean one or both off. This is a really tough situation and I really admire you for sticking it out for as long as you have. These kitties are very lucky to have such a devoted and compassionate human on their side!!

 

[NikkiA]

I don't have any new suggestions for you (I wish I did); just wanted to let you know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[l.i.t]

Well, I woke up this morning, fully engaged in pity pot mode. I know two things:
1. Bucky has kitten energy, and adult territorial behavior.
2. Lotto does not *display* territorial tendencies toward Bucky at this point (which does not mean to say he doesn't have them). However Lotto is overreactive toward Bucky even when Bucky is not misbehaving.

So we have a bully and a drama queen. Poor Toot is just scared (as is her nature) and doesn't want to come out of our bedroom.

And here's my problem. Everyone (Marilyn, the breeder, my husband, etc) seems to have their own ideas on what we should do/try, what they don't want to do/try, and what will work. And *I* have no idea what to do or who to trust. My heart is too big, I don't want to hurt any of my babies (including Bucky), and yet I seem the be the one who has to make the decisions. Instead, I just want to run away because no solution is painless to those involved.

As for the current situation - The problem I see with the way things have been going is that everyone is destressed..... but in the process, Bucky has been positively reinforced that if he jumps on - or shows aggressive behavior in any way - Lotto (or Tootie), that they will be put back in a room and he gets the house to himself. So I'm not sure we've gone the right direction here.

I hate that Bucky is already so attached (and he's really a great little guy by himself), and that I am so in love with him.....IF we end up having to rehome him. And a small, prideful part of me doesn't want to be this breeder's first failure - she is one of the long term founding breeders, and I really do trust her insight. I can swallow my pride, of course, but a part of me questions 'what is wrong with me that everyone else can make it work and not me.' Perhaps the answer is that I am having a hard time with tough love?

I want to try Prozac. My husband wants to try benzos. Neither of us wants to have to fight to pill either cat b/c neither of them will eat pills or liquid in food.

Anyhow, enough of the pity pot. I just wish I could get my HEAD to convince my HEART that this is just one of those bad situations that happens. And it may work out or it may not. I just have to accept it, but I can't seem to get my heart to listen.

 

[NikkiA]

Sending you hugs.

 

[l.i.t]

And to top it off today, Lotto let himself out of the bedroom....found Bucky in one of the many nylon tubes we have, and started trying to play with him (not aggressive or fearful, but like when they play well). Of course, they did OK together, then it gradually disintegrated into Bucky continually trying to remove Lotto from his perch. (truth be told, I bought a new tower with 3 perches and left off the top one so there would be no 'king of the tower'. Lotto would be on one perch, bucky would try to take it, so Lotto moved to the next perch... And back and forth until Lotto finally got tired and Bucky chased him into the bedroom.)

All of this happened, of course, while I was addressing a surgical change in a case

The least these cats could do for us is be consistent... Are you scared? Or do you want to play? Perhaps he's just histrionic!

 

[Patti]

Well, I woke up this morning, fully engaged in pity pot mode. I know two things:
1. Bucky has kitten energy, and adult territorial behavior.
2. Lotto does not *display* territorial tendencies toward Bucky at this point (which does not mean to say he doesn't have them). However Lotto is overreactive toward Bucky even when Bucky is not misbehaving.

So we have a bully and a drama queen. Poor Toot is just scared (as is her nature) and doesn't want to come out of our bedroom.

And here's my problem. Everyone (Marilyn, the breeder, my husband, etc) seems to have their own ideas on what we should do/try, what they don't want to do/try, and what will work. And *I* have no idea what to do or who to trust. My heart is too big, I don't want to hurt any of my babies (including Bucky), and yet I seem the be the one who has to make the decisions. Instead, I just want to run away because no solution is painless to those involved.

As for the current situation - The problem I see with the way things have been going is that everyone is destressed..... but in the process, Bucky has been positively reinforced that if he jumps on - or shows aggressive behavior in any way - Lotto (or Tootie), that they will be put back in a room and he gets the house to himself. So I'm not sure we've gone the right direction here.

I hate that Bucky is already so attached (and he's really a great little guy by himself), and that I am so in love with him.....IF we end up having to rehome him. And a small, prideful part of me doesn't want to be this breeder's first failure - she is one of the long term founding breeders, and I really do trust her insight. I can swallow my pride, of course, but a part of me questions 'what is wrong with me that everyone else can make it work and not me.' Perhaps the answer is that I am having a hard time with tough love?

I want to try Prozac. My husband wants to try benzos. Neither of us wants to have to fight to pill either cat b/c neither of them will eat pills or liquid in food.

Anyhow, enough of the pity pot. I just wish I could get my HEAD to convince my HEART that this is just one of those bad situations that happens. And it may work out or it may not. I just have to accept it, but I can't seem to get my heart to listen.

I think I mentioned before my concern that you are 'rewarding' Bucky by giving him the run of the house while locking the others away when he is the one misbehaving. Benzos are a potential medication to use but it would not be my first choice. First, experience tells me that these are not long-term meds but made for the short term, situational issues. Second, they are sedating so it is very possible you will see a change in the cat's personality, not just in his behavior. I did not have either issues when using Prozac or Paxil so for me these were the better choice.

 

[l.i.t]

Patti, you did say that, and I actually agreed with the sentiment. I was trying to do as Marilyn recommended... It was her belief that
Lotto and Toot have the 'sanctuary' Bucky free room - which was to be our bedroom b/c it is someplace other than the living room where we are frequently and where they are comfortable. I suppose she was focusing on the de-stressing?

I admit that Lotto and Toot are comfortable and have a safe place - but I think Marilyn truly believed that Bucky would get to a point where he would be able to have incompatible behaviors with Lotto, and would be focused on playing with us when Lotto came into the room. I have said from the very start that bucky is undistractable when it comes to the other cats, and (unfortunately) that hasn't changed.

Now Marilyn wants to focus on keeping other animals away from the house... And aside from the other night (which was a coyote - I found scat) and the one time with the fox, other animals have never been an issue. We actually had a family of foxes (mom, dad, and 2 pups), as well as jackrabbits and cottontails, come by our house every day last summer. We live next to a hiking trail where people bring their dogs all the time. Our house is next to a national park where we get deer migration twice a year. Lotto has only had the one time where he got upset with the Fox - but has never had problems (until the coyote) with other animals around the house. So I don't know.

I agree with you about the Prozac/antidepressants. My husband is a neurologist, so he knows both classes well. I think benzos will be too strong, as well as habituating. He thinks that antidepressants will not work in a kitten b/c they often do not work in children. Luckily, I think our vet would rather prescribe the antidepressants rather than a scheduled substance. So I think Prozac will win out.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.....

 

[Rafiki]

What is the size difference between Lotto and Bucky?
Just trying to get more perspective as to how violent some of these encounters are.....

 

[l.i.t]

Rafiki,

Not violent... Just persistently aggressive. Lotto and Toot are always having to be 'on guard' when Bucky is with them. He often 'attacks' the unprovoked. They handle it well in short spurts, but not in long extended periods of time. Problem is it hasn't gotten any better. It also hasn't really gotten worse. But none of the cats are relaxed or happy with the status quo when together.

Lotto is just slightly bigger than Bucky. Lotto is about 15lbs, tall and fairly lean. Bucky is 14lbs,slightly shorter, but stocky (as in muscle).

 

[l.i.t]

For those that are interested, I have uploaded some of the videos into a Dropbox folder that I can share if you PM me your email address.

I tried to upload to YouTube, but it forces me to create a google+ account which I refuse to do (all the Picasa photo sharing it will 'automatically' do).

Lotto opened the bedroom door early this morning (around 4am)...i briefly woke up, but was in and out of sleep. By about 4:15am, I was awake and Bucky was in the bedroom. We had no *major* incidents (only a few jumping on the back and some light fighting).... But I video-ed most of it - it takes place in the living room (sorry for the mess - everything has been shifted as we were creating the catwalk - toys, etc had to be moved for 10ft ladder, etc), the cabinets in the laundry room, and then the closet.

If you want to get a feel for all of this, the videos give a good representation. It's not violent ... But aggressive - and shows Bucky being undistractible and even obsessed with getting to Lotto when Lotto in in a 'safe' place. Bucky does not go after Tootie as often as he does Lotto. And in the earlier videos (bedroom, living room, kitchen) you can get a sense of the stress level of the incumbent cats.

Lotto is the lighter colored, Bucky is the darker with the maine-coon tufts on his ear tips, and Tootie is the Tootie Manx.

If anyone knows a better way to share the videos, I'm open to suggestions!