Savannah Weights

[sacred]

About that.... Has anyone here experienced later kitten tooth loss in Savannahs, and that being connected to a slower growth rate? Just curious. My vet has seen a lot if Savannahs (she is popular with a few of the Chicago area breeders). She commented that Zahra was a bit small for an F2 and thought it was adorable and unusual that she still has all of her baby teeth. She said that might indicate slower development, which left me wondering if anyone else has seen growth spurts after six months in slower developing cats.

I have heard anecdotal reports that the slow growers tend to achieve above average height/weight. Though, do note that the concrete data points in this thread seem to indicate that big kittens become big cats. Note that these are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts, as we could be looking at a growth model where the fast growers and slow growers tend to become the largest cats, but the slow growth concept seems to be purely anecdotal so not entirely reliable without data. What we need are 3 year growth charts delineated by filial generation with N that can generate a good p value (e.g. <.05) to really get at this, which is probably the next step in the work John Popp was doing (i.e. establishing baseline groupings for height/weight).

Like ZahrasHuman I too would also be curious to hear observations from those who have been around the breed long enough to comment on any connection between tenure of baby teeth and total growth period. I wonder if the age at which kittens are or are not neutered/spayed has an impact on how long kittens retain their baby teeth and if that skews the data (the same way it delays the closing of growth plates).

 

[Patti]

I have heard anecdotal reports that the slow growers tend to achieve above average height/weight. Though, do note that the concrete data points in this thread seem to indicate that big kittens become big cats.
I have heard neither of these theories, and in particular I make it a point to tell potential kitten buyers that a big kitten will not necessarily translate into a big cat... and to go one step further, I have had the runt of the litter turn out to be the biggest cat in the past.

In my own personal experience only, when I have seen a 'slow developer' it has been a kitten that was either born premature or had an illness early on which slowed its growth. In both scenarios they usually eventually grow to 'normal' cat size, e.g., equivalent to their littermates.

Like ZahrasHuman I too would also be curious to hear observations from those who have been around the breed long enough to comment on any connection between tenure of baby teeth and total growth period. I wonder if the age at which kittens are or are not neutered/spayed has an impact on how long kittens retain their baby teeth and if that skews the data (the same way it delays the closing of growth plates).

I've not heard this before either, but interesting theory!

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

I'm not sure that I've really kept track... nor had a kitten that seemed to keep kitten teeth longer to know if they ended up larger than expected. My larger Savannahs I think were pretty normal in that respect...

 

[cbain]

That's a very nice looking Savannah, give him a pet and a treat from me

 

[SV Dad]

Curious thing with Rascal(F3). He's about 4&1/2 yo now. He has always been skinny. Not exceptionally tall. But he seems to still be filling out at the shoulders. He is picking up some weight as this occurs, but definitely not fat. His face seems to be widening also. I was expecting his body to be set at 3 years, but I am seeing the change. I don't believe I am seeing this same phenomenon with his 3&1/2 yo full brother. He got neutered at 5 to 6 months when we started to see some testosterone based behaviors emerging.
On the other hand, my son's F3 cat was a moose from the word go. From that cat's features, he could be mistaken for a F2.

On a side note, I can't recall noting anything about mammalian tooth development related to emergence of sex hormones.

 

[sacred]

View attachment 11193 View attachment 11194 Dalila is the one on the left... as you can see none of the four (three girls and a boy) turned out like Zari! Forgive their bugged out eyes, first professional shoot and they were very excited by the wand toy he was whizzing about! LOL!

I think these later generation are the key as you have to go through several cycles to get one new fertile/stable generation and they are the starting point for the new cycle (assuming we're holding all servals equal - which is another variable to consider). What percent serval do you estimate these kittens are (mathematical % and your best guess by phenotype expression)? In theory, can't we simply keep breeding the percentage of serval in the F4/F5 generation up until we're at basically the 50/50 mark in the SBT?

Also - are there differences between male/female serval breedings (e.g. Mule vs Hinny; Tigon vs Liger)? I'm assuming the male cat to female serval breedings don't take given the apparant sexual dimorphism vis a vis fertility but am curious if it's been tried.

 

[Brigitte Cowell]

These F5 SBTs would be ~8%. I calculated their mother's % at 11.6% but haven't calculated their dad's but most of my studs have been ~5%.

I think if you used a lot of HP F1s yes, potentially you could but you would also then not be able to expect the males to be fertile then. Two of the three males Nadiya has produced were kept for fertility and neither proved...even though her father is a fertile male at 8.7% and there are fertile F4 males behind her and the studs used.

As to differences when you use a female Serval, I think we've only seen F1 kittens from two female Servals ever... so it is hard to say if their visual difference is anything other than individual differences between F1s which is also dependent on the domestic male used just like when using a male serval and domestic females. Of course it has been tried, many many times... just almost always it doesn't work.

 

[sacred]

Zahra, our 26 week old F2B Spayed Female (at 18 weeks), just weighed in at 8lbs 8 ounces. Pretty shocking to us as at 22 weeks she was 6lbs 12 ounces.

Here is a very recent picture of her hissing at her nemesis: The evil red broom. She encountered this broom on her 1st day home and it's been an ongoing saga of loathing and distrust. Zahra doesn't have a problem with any other brooms, but man oh man does she sure hate this one. And I don't mean she's afraid of it, because she's not afraid, she just hates it.

 

[John Campbell]

Zahra, our 26 week old F2B Spayed Female (at 18 weeks), just weighed in at 8lbs 8 ounces. Pretty shocking to us as at 22 weeks she was 6lbs 12 ounces.

Here is a very recent picture of her hissing at her nemesis: The evil red broom. She encountered this broom on her 1st day home and it's been an ongoing saga of loathing and distrust. Zahra doesn't have a problem with any other brooms, but man oh man does she sure hate this one. And I don't mean she's afraid of it, because she's not afraid, she just hates it.

View attachment 11718

LOL.. That is funny... Nice looking kitty, Does she ever attack it?

 

[Rafiki]

You have no idea. She is amazing. She loves playing, but isn't unruly or overly hyper and never bites or claws her people. She loves cuddling and sleeps with her owner (I am merely the significant other who paid for her) on the bed every night. She is very confident and quickly warms up to new places and new people. They say Savannah's aren't lap cats, but Zahra definitely is, at least on her terms. She probably won't be the biggest F2B out there and she has a few minor physical faults (e.g. she could have more defined oscilli) but she is nevertheless quite an attractive cat and in terms of temperament and personality we feel like we hit a grand slam home run. Many thanks to Mike and Sandy at Halestone for breeding such a fantastic cat for our home.

Who is Zahra's mom? Rafiki is a F3C from Halestone.