Diet

[John Popp]

What food are they currently eating?

 

[harlowe.michael]

What food are they currently eating?

Royal canin gastro wet

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[John Popp]

Hi Michael,

I had a chance to look up your food on Dr Pierson's catinfo.org page. https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

From there I looked up the profiles of the Royal Canin foods and there were a couple different GI versions. Not sure which one you are using, but all of them are high in carbs and cats have absolutely no need for them. This can be a very common source of allergies and gastro issues. Others can give you more details than I, but there is a whole range of issues that can emerge from grain allergies and again it isn't something a cat needs.

Here are the ingredients from the Royal Canin Site, corn, and rice flour are suspect as is why would I want to be feeding my cat powdered cellulose.

Water sufficient for processing, chicken, chicken liver, corn flour, rice flour, chicken by-product, pork plasma, powdered cellulose, fish oil, potassium chloride, sodium silico aluminate, natural flavors, sodium tripolyphosphate, carob bean gum, taurine, calcium sulfate, hydrolyzed yeast, carrageenan, choline chloride, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), niacin supplement, biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement], magnesium oxide, trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.).

As you have Royal Canin food available to you, I would move them to their wet kitten food. It's not the best canned food available, but it will cut their carbs in half and have a protein level more appropriate for their stage of life. The big thing is the reduction of carbs, and you could probably explore which carbs are causing issues for them with allergy testing, but the reality is they just don't need them.

Think of a mouse or small bird as the ideal food source. If they were to eat them whole, the only grain consumed would be that found in the stomach of their prey. That's not a lot, and that's if they eat the stomach at all.

Please make a note of some other brands of cat foods you have available to you.

 

[harlowe.michael]

Hi Michael,

I had a chance to look up your food on Dr Pierson's catinfo.org page. https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

From there I looked up the profiles of the Royal Canin foods and there were a couple different GI versions. Not sure which one you are using, but all of them are high in carbs and cats have absolutely no need for them. This can be a very common source of allergies and gastro issues. Others can give you more details than I, but there is a whole range of issues that can emerge from grain allergies and again it isn't something a cat needs.

Here are the ingredients from the Royal Canin Site, corn, and rice flour are suspect as is why would I want to be feeding my cat powdered cellulose.

Water sufficient for processing, chicken, chicken liver, corn flour, rice flour, chicken by-product, pork plasma, powdered cellulose, fish oil, potassium chloride, sodium silico aluminate, natural flavors, sodium tripolyphosphate, carob bean gum, taurine, calcium sulfate, hydrolyzed yeast, carrageenan, choline chloride, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), niacin supplement, biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement], magnesium oxide, trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.).

As you have Royal Canin food available to you, I would move them to their wet kitten food. It's not the best canned food available, but it will cut their carbs in half and have a protein level more appropriate for their stage of life. The big thing is the reduction of carbs, and you could probably explore which carbs are causing issues for them with allergy testing, but the reality is they just don't need them.

Think of a mouse or small bird as the ideal food source. If they were to eat them whole, the only grain consumed would be that found in the stomach of their prey. That's not a lot, and that's if they eat the stomach at all.

Please make a note of some other brands of cat foods you have available to you.

Thanks so much john. Unfortunately theres not a whole lot of choice here in terms of wet food. They had tolerated the gastro then suddenly the diahoraea started again. Vets report has come back clear. To be honest I'm losing faith in vet I'm using. I'm going to try reintroduce raw diet again and slowly add things like liver heart etc. My only consolation is they are their usual happy self and not off form at all. Definitely drinking more than usual.

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[John Popp]

To a hammer, every problem is a nail. Vets aren't necessarily nutrition experts and things that are known quantities are preferred to having pet owners freelancing making their pets food.

Be careful with the livers, they should only be about 5% of the total weight of the food you prepare as they have needed minerals but in excess quantity, they can be toxic. Hearts are fine and definitely needed, the key being taurine and you should have unflavored taurine powder available as well. You can't really reach a toxicity level for taurine so even if you have added hearts I would still add 1,000mg of Taurine per Kilo. Best to use a solid recipe from catinfo.org, although those are the basics. Make sure you are getting some bone in there as well and always bake the livers if they are outside a body cavity.

Hope that helps and keep us posted on how your cats are doing.

 

[harlowe.michael]

To a hammer, every problem is a nail. Vets aren't necessarily nutrition experts and things that are known quantities are preferred to having pet owners freelancing making their pets food.

Be careful with the livers, they should only be about 5% of the total weight of the food you prepare as they have needed minerals but in excess quantity, they can be toxic. Hearts are fine and definitely needed, the key being taurine and you should have unflavored taurine powder available as well. You can't really reach a toxicity level for taurine so even if you have added hearts I would still add 1,000mg of Taurine per Kilo. Best to use a solid recipe from catinfo.org, although those are the basics. Make sure you are getting some bone in there as well and always bake the livers if they are outside a body cavity.

Hope that helps and keep us posted on how your cats are doing.

Thanks and i will. So so grateful for the advice

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[Ninja-n-Bear]

Thanks and i will. So so grateful for the advice

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Some cats are also sensitive to chicken, I don't know if everything you've tried had chicken in or not, just something to keep in mind. Hopefully lowering carbs will do the trick!

 

[Patti]

I can't remember what you have been feeding but try taking them completely off chicken and look for a limited ingredient food that doesn't have any grains or additives, such as Natural Balance Duck and Pea. Add psyllium (e.g., unflavored metamucil) to their food - for dry I just add an entire 16-24oz jar in and shake it up, for wet I sprinkle liberally over each can that I serve.

 

[Manu+Horde]

Hi Michael,

if the PCR and the test's result are all negative - it seems you need to change to a better food option.
My VET told me years ago - best food is prey food - here in Germany we can buy in our zoo store's frozen reptile food - these are frozen baby chicken or small white food mice - for normal cats have less problems to accept the prey with their stomach. It also prevents getting probs with the dents. When your kittens are able to bite well - you can maybe test if they like it - this should maybe solve the stool problem they have at the moment. Ok it is raw prey food but for normal the ideal food for the furr ones called cats. If your kittens have biting issues (i really don't think they will) you can also put they prey's through a meat grinder (completely) and serve it to them.

My cats (4 DSH +1 Savannah) have a mixture food sortiment - they have Bozita dry food - Purina and Bozita wet food and get 1-2 baby chicken per day and fresh water available - my Savannah prefers Bozita dry food and takes 2 baby chicken in the evening - wet food isnt really hers ... i tried also BARF (raw meat mixed with add on's) but she just walked away ... it need to be looking and be tasty like a bird
She is a bit "special" but everything is ok with her stomach & poo - also the others have no issues with their stool ... one is preferring only kibble - the other DSH girl is on wet food and baby chicken combined and the last one eats all ... so it is up to you find the way to get you furr babies on the right diet.

It is not that easy to find the best canned or prepared food ... it is something you might need to find out ... but Royal Canin ... is more ore less not bad but also not good ...

The thing you need to look at is corn free and high percentage of meat in your food for the cats - corn is nothing a cat can resorb / use ... its just for having more material in the food and maintain the food product cheap.

Maybe you find a good wet food for your kittens and you can enlarge it with grinded cow meat (raw or cooked / whats better accepted) to raise the amount of meat percentage.
Also you should check up for more than only one product so that you have some variants for the taste ... but first of all ... try to get off from the wet food with corn / rice flower ingredients - these are not really good for cats.

These are hopefully some hints to check if some maybe help ... i can only give some advice what maybe be practicable ...

Thumbs pressed for getting better with the Kittens food / stool issue ...

Greets from the Horde

 

[harlowe.michael]

Hi Michael,

if the PCR and the test's result are all negative - it seems you need to change to a better food option.
My VET told me years ago - best food is prey food - here in Germany we can buy in our zoo store's frozen reptile food - these are frozen baby chicken or small white food mice - for normal cats have less problems to accept the prey with their stomach. It also prevents getting probs with the dents. When your kittens are able to bite well - you can maybe test if they like it - this should maybe solve the stool problem they have at the moment. Ok it is raw prey food but for normal the ideal food for the furr ones called cats. If your kittens have biting issues (i really don't think they will) you can also put they prey's through a meat grinder (completely) and serve it to them.

My cats (4 DSH +1 Savannah) have a mixture food sortiment - they have Bozita dry food - Purina and Bozita wet food and get 1-2 baby chicken per day and fresh water available - my Savannah prefers Bozita dry food and takes 2 baby chicken in the evening - wet food isnt really hers ... i tried also BARF (raw meat mixed with add on's) but she just walked away ... it need to be looking and be tasty like a bird
She is a bit "special" but everything is ok with her stomach & poo - also the others have no issues with their stool ... one is preferring only kibble - the other DSH girl is on wet food and baby chicken combined and the last one eats all ... so it is up to you find the way to get you furr babies on the right diet.

It is not that easy to find the best canned or prepared food ... it is something you might need to find out ... but Royal Canin ... is more ore less not bad but also not good ...

The thing you need to look at is corn free and high percentage of meat in your food for the cats - corn is nothing a cat can resorb / use ... its just for having more material in the food and maintain the food product cheap.

Maybe you find a good wet food for your kittens and you can enlarge it with grinded cow meat (raw or cooked / whats better accepted) to raise the amount of meat percentage.
Also you should check up for more than only one product so that you have some variants for the taste ... but first of all ... try to get off from the wet food with corn / rice flower ingredients - these are not really good for cats.

These are hopefully some hints to check if some maybe help ... i can only give some advice what maybe be practicable ...

Thumbs pressed for getting better with the Kittens food / stool issue ...

Greets from the Horde

Thanks so much for the information. I've started a raw diet a few days ago. No commercial product seemed to work so I've made my own. So far so good. Poos still not 100% normal but definitely better and less smell. There's a Facebook page called CRAP and it has fantastic recommendations for making your own. Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my request.

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