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Self Regulation?

L

Louie'sDad

Guest
Per Lausund said:
Why would you give Clavamox to treat coccidiae? Was that explained, ´cause I´d sure like to hear that?
Click to expand...

I may have either the condition or the medication wrong. I'm trying to find the email Holly sent me, but so far no luck. I DO remember that as soon as she sent me the email explaining the medicine, and the suspected ailment, I Googled it and the med was described as one of the more effective meds for the condition she thought that it might be. The medicine was a white powder that I had to mix with water. I had to administer one eyedropper full once a day, for, I think, 4 days. The eyedropper might have been 1 ml capacity.
 
Per Lausund

Per Lausund

Moderator
Staff member
Let´s be more precise: You do NOT treat coccidiosis with clavamox or similar antibiotics. Coccidiosis is a stress-related (and raw meat feeding related, though most cats carry coccidiae at least once in a lifetime) disease, so treatment has two goals: remove immune stress (other diseases or conditions* that allow coccidiae to flourish) and reduce or preferably remove the organism. Sulfa-trimethoprim combos may be beneficial here.

*Immune stress may be caused by crowding, unsanitary conditions, weaning (early, especially), viral infections, medication that alter microbial balance (like too frequent use of clavamox), vaccination of not quite healthy individuals etc


tri smug:
 
Per Lausund

Per Lausund

Moderator
Staff member
admin said:
Usually Ponazuril is used here to treat Coccia, Per! What about Europe?
Click to expand...
I believe that depends on availability, and it has been used in the EU, especially in cat shelters etc.
It is a horse product, though, and requires careful dosing (of the 5% not 2,5% paste) in order to do things correctly.
Coccidiosis is not seen as a big problem in "few-cat" households, and usually clears. The organisms are ubiquitous, so all we can do is keep the numbers down and our cats healthy, treat when necessary, wash the house (to clear the stink) and hope and pray it doesn´t happen again.
 
L

Louie'sDad

Guest
Per, Brigitte, et al.,

I just spoke to the breeder about Louie's treatment. The suspected culprit was indeed coccidia and the drug that they sent me last month, to combat it was Marquis, not Clavamox. I don't know what made me say "Clavamox", but my apologies for the error and confusion. In any event, the problem was NOT coccidia, because the Marquis did not clear it. The breeder went on to tell me that they give probiotics to all of their kittens at weaning to ensure that any associated stresses are headed off before they can become an issue. They get the intestinal flora whether they need it or not. Their kittens are wormed before given up for adoption. Their facility is scrupulously cleaned and disinfected at all times.

Dale Hummel received his Bachelor’s Degree in Animal Sciences from the University of Illinois and his graduate degree in Animal Nutrition. First teaching at the University level, he now holds a position at Joliet Junior College where his curriculum includes Animal Science, Genetics, Nutrition, Live Animal Evaluation, and a Companion/Exotic Animal class. I have spoken to him at length about Louie's elimination "problem". WITHOUT ANY PROMPTING ON MY PART, he said that the condition is very possibly caused by premature elimination of the stool from the bowel, before proper moisture absorption can be completed. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAD IN MIND, AND WHAT I POSTULATED IN AN EARLIER POST, ABOVE. This morning, again. Lou defecated in front of me just as soon as I approached his litter box. The last 1/4 of the stool was soft and light colored, with the first 3/4 being normal.

If this is true, then the condition will probably not be corrected by any additional measure of repopulating or supplementing the intestinal flora. With this in mind, it is logical as to why the ProZyme, although beneficient, did not produce the desired result. If this is true, then there is no logical explanation why/how some cats do this, and it can only be hoped that he will grow out of it.

Dale and I also discussed the possibility that the EVO Turkey and Chicken kibble might be too rich for him. Remember that I was feeding Royal Canin before the EVO, and the situation was the same.

I will continue to explore possibilities, although now I am resigned to the fact that this may be a condition over which there is no solution.The upside of this is that Louie appears to be suffering NO distress whatsoever. He is growing nicely, energetic, with a shiny and healthy coat. There is never any blood or mucous in the stool.

FWIW, if anything, I should add that Lou has the "hiccoughs" occasionally. Take this as additional background. From my perspective, it means nothing, but an expert might see that as a clue.

Which do you recommend that I use next: Proviable KP, Proviable DC, or Probios?
 
admin

admin

Paige
Staff member
Marquis is the same drug as Ponazuril...

Joe, if Louie is not having any real discomfort or issues, then what you have said makes a lot of sense and I would just leave him alone.

Probiotics is not really meant to be a long-term treatment, even in humans. but as a short-term, the probios Gel works well and so does the Proviable KP...not sure about the Proviable DC - have never used it.

I don't have my degrees in animal science - they are in medical science...I have found they work just as well ;)
 
L

Louie'sDad

Guest
Paige,

As you know, humans cannot defecate until the stool leaves the bowel (large intestine) and enters the rectum, so humans cannot "defecate on demand", but only when nature calls (stool is properly "staged" in the rectum). Felines may have a different mechanism. Dunno. Otherwise, I can't see how early stool elimination is physically possible.


In any event, if all of that's true, then probiotics shouldn't make any difference, since all nutrients are extracted in the small intestine, where most of the flora reside. Although there are a smaller amount of bacterium in the rest of the digestive tract, the primary purpose of the bowel is to extract moisture from the stool.


I'll give the Proviable KP, Proviable DC, or Probios a "shot". Was going to go buy it today, but will wait for more feedback.
 
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